USER POLL: Allow religious debates?
 

There have been many debates lately that can be linked directly or indirectly to religious beliefs - while they for some people provides a way to discuss things of great significance in their lives, they can also be a source of conflicts where conflicts do not need to be.

Several persons, especially among the staff, have expressed their concerns about this - and with all right, since it might prove to be a significant problem in the future.

A decision that holds such a large impact on the community, however, should not be made by us, the staff - it should be made by the community. Therefore I'm making this user poll which will last for one week - and as always its outcome will determine what will happen.

If you would like to change your vote, PM me or any other staff member and we'll take care of it.

After all, this is also a thread of presenting arguments on whether to allow religious debates or not - and opinions might change. This is NOT a thread to discuss anything else though, ONLY this decision itself. Posts violating this will be edited out. Just putting up this warning in before, to make sure this won't turn into a flamewar. ;)

Sadly, all decisions will make some people happy but others less happy - so for you who lose this voting in the end, please respect the community's decision and make the best out of it.

Thank you for your time reading this,

Eltu

No, it hasn't worked... people have used it as an excuse to make personal attacks and derail threads they dislike and it has directly caused several people to leave.
Truthfully, it seems like pointless to anyway since nobody will ever consider what the other person is saying, they just respond to the other side's statement and it gradually escalates from there. That said, there was a chance, MANY chances actually, but they were abused.

When what happens threads like this happens semi-regularly: http://www.tree-of-souls.com/general...ere_earth.html - you know something is wrong. I can also state that there are many deleted posts on that page, including a personal attack against me and another member, neither of who were taking part in that discussion.

EDIT:
(copied from my post further down)

Ok, I'd like to clarify again:

Earlier today, I attempted to get everyone together to discuss the current situation and how all threads with such content are degrading into insults and flamewars.
Eltu posted this thread without any discussion and I never proposed to completely disallow mentions of it. I did agree that a poll MIGHT be a sensible idea, but there was never any discussion of what it should be, I didn't even realise this thread was made until I saw it here. What I proposed was that we needed to THINK OF ways to deal with these threads and people bringing them off topic, not necessarily not to allow any mention.

This thread is based on something that was not actually being considered.
Equally, no matter the outcome of this thread, no topic will be considered an excuse to make personal attacks. I have let too much slide because if the thread topic and because certain people here like to complain simply due to perceived slights simply because I do not share their views and want to avoid problems of the type that cause hidden resentment all over the place, which is never a good thing to be present.
Elyannia, you may not know this as the post as deleted, but someone was making insulting comments about you among others on that thread.

And likewise, people have left because they felt that they can't discuss what they want. Like I said,

People will always leave, and people will always join, nothing strange about that. And sometimes they to for conflicting reasons.

They should totally be allowed.

I'd love for this community to be one which can hold just about any kind of debate without things getting too heated or anyone taking things personally. Perhaps that's not plausible due to its size, but I think it's something we should strive for nonetheless.

Just to clarify for people voting:

Voting 'yes' doe not mean you will be given freedom to make insults and reductio ad hitlerum to people who oppose you as before.

I voted yes. When two conflicting opinions meet, the discussion always gets a little heated up. Religion is usually very close to one's heart which may lead to problems.. but on the other hand makes religions one of the most interesting and endless things to discuss.

I voted yes, because sometimes religous debates just happen and can't be controlled. People just need to learn to respect other peoples views.

I vote 'yes' (obviously). Otherwise there's constant thread-deletion and bottled-up statements, where any religious person can be ridiculed however anyone wants them to be, and the person being ridiculed has absolutely no way of defending themself.

By the way, HNM, the thread you bring up happens to be one that Tiberius, Zai-en-ken, and I all made an effort to keep going without being locked. We resolved our conflict, and now everyone's happy again. If you'd just let that happen with every other thread without lock lock locking it, we'd be fine. :)

I voted yes. I have had some very enlightening discussions about moral topics and religion. Religion is not the heart of the problem. Not every debate thread that goes wrong involves relgion. It is part of a much bigger problem where people are resorting to irony, ridicule, and ad hominems. Religion discussions banned or not, we will still have very serious problems with debates. We need to tackle the much larger problem instead. I have seen a lot of political debates on these forums go downhill quickly. Should we ban discussions of politics also?

That being said, I will still accept whatever decision the community decides.

I voted NO.

Ok, I'd like to clarify again:

Earlier today, I attempted to get everyone together to discuss the current situation and how all threads with such content are degrading into insults and flamewars.
Eltu posted this thread without any discussion and I never proposed to completely disallow mentions of it. What I proposed was that we needed to THINK OF ways to deal with these threads and people bringing them off topic, not necessarily not to allow any mention.

This thread is based on something that was not actually being considered.
Equally, no matter the outcome of this thread, no topic will be considered an excuse to make personal attacks. I have let too much slide because if the thread topic and because certain people here like to complain simply due to perceived slights simply because I do not share their views and want to avoid problems of the type that cause hidden resentment all over the place, which is never a good thing to be present.
Elyannia, you may not know this as the post as deleted, but someone was making insulting comments about you among others on that thread.

HNM, are you bribing Elyannia to say 'no'? If the post was deleted, why are you bringing it up? It wasn't meant to be read. It'd be like me posting some things you've told me over PM, or things Eltu has said... I work in confidence of others' private comments, and I don't reveal anything. You, on the other hand, have no problem saying whatever you like. Your comment on Elyannia is completely out of line.

If I didn't know any better (which I don't), I'd say you were trying to start an argument right here, right now so you'd have an excuse...

Okay? Idc I don't need everyone to like me you know. I'm actually not a very likeable person so I'm not suprised if someone had something to say about me. The past is the past who cares.

Plus I've been seeing you put down ALOT of peoples comments that I find rude and starting arguements that could have been avoided like you are trying to do on this topic as well.

Bribing?
Maybe you should reread that and think about how pathetic an accusation that is. The truth is, I simply stated a fact (about a post you agreed with then subsequently deleted your reply). Maybe I'm wrong here, but the only aggressive post I see in this thread is yours.
I wasn't asking anyone to vote any particular way, I simply stated a fact about a post from the latest thread to be derailed. Yes, the same post was insulting about me, maybe I let that affect me, but there was still absolutely no need for it.

also, oh wow, you can post my IRL name on a forum, I bet that makes you feel big... I hope that wasn't an attempt to intimidate me.
Want me to post your IP and email addresses and GeoIP information? I didn't think so.