The Problem With The Custom Title For Donation.
 

More then 8 people who are not admins or moderators have custom titles already and they haven't contributed anything except for being "friends" with certain people who spend whole day on IRC talking about crap.

If you want people to donate then everyone should be on the same terms.
I asked about the custom titles and expressed a wish to get one but all I got in respond was silence.

Not to mention that this forum has like way way too many admins, moderators and all kinds of other funky meaningless words that mean absolute nothing except for : " his my friend so he will be a super moderator".

All I see is the same AF moderator god like behavior all over again with the admins here. Some of you are already acting exactly like that, yes more ass kissing please.

rant off.

I am sad that you feel that way, and that your request for a custom title was ignored.

For the people who already have custom titles - the reason they have it is *not* because they are simply "friends" but because they have been involved in the creation of the forum, most of them from the beginning, and has contributed very much to the making of the forums.

I understand your point. However, I would like you to name one single super moderator that has been made such for the reasons you describe.

The moderators are moderators either because they were with the forum creation from the beginning, or because they contribute greatly to the community.

All I wanted to point out was that you can't tell people that in exchange for a donation they will be able to get a custom title while you have 8 other people running around who were able to get one only because they have been a part of the community on AF and your friends with em or because they signed up at the first minute on the forums.

Prove me wrong please.

And before you say again that they HUGELY contributed to the forum in some unknown way(maybe by spamming Neytiri on IRC who knows :P) I remember asking you if the titles are customizable for everyone since that's the first time that I noticed how about 65% of all people at that time on the forums had em except a few of us.
And what you said was that they simply asked for it. You didn't say anything else except that they asked an admin to change it for them.
So yea,gg.

I will reply to your statements in order.

The people you refer to have either been a part of the group who planned out these forums but not wanted to be a mod or similar - or people who has contributed greatly to the forums.

For example:
Xynth has a custom title - he was among the original group of forum members who planned ToS.
Immo39 also has a custom title for the very same reason.
Eonmokri has a custom title because she was a great aid in helping the forums to become partners.


Yes, they asked for it, and they got it because of the reasons I mentioned above.


But my main point is - the ones who donate hardly does it for a custom title. It is not a big deal, really. If you care about a custom title, we could enable custom titles for all users on the forums, sure thing :)

Just tell and I'll push the button. I'm not your enemy :D

I really don't care what you decide to do about this issue, its your right anyway and not my place to question it. I posted this in the feedback section because well, its a feedback and its here now. I expressed how I feel about it and I still think that if anyone actually decides to donate they will most likely think twice about it since its highly unfair that some have to pay while others get a free pass.

First of all, it IS your place to question it - this is the whole meaning of these forums.

Second,

Donators do not HAVE to pay anything at all. They are doing it because they want to support the forums. They are not paying money to get an own user title - but because they would want to see this forum stay online.

If you can prove me different by findig a donator who does not think like this, go for it. But saying that donators are just giving money beacuse of a custom user title is really not true.

Then why are you offering titles then for donation if you think that everyone is so willingly to support the forum with money on good spirit?

Kinda self kill there

And I didnt mean it in that way anyway, I just said that when you pay money you expect something in return, everybody expects to get something for their money.

You could ask he very same question in Avatar-forums.

The titles are not a big thing, they are just a small bonus. As I said before, making custom titles available to all users is something we could do as well.

The custom titles are a fringe benefit. Just like when NPR or similar say "Donate $100 and get...[insert item]." I'm sure some people did donate because of the item available, but there are people who donate regardless. A donater doesn't have to use a custom title, but considering how easy it is to do, there's no reason not to given the option.

As for getting something for your money, from a strict business point of view, what you're getting is a forum that is operational. The hosting back-end for this place is not cheap. Thus, the donation directly serves to keep this place operational. There aren't any advertisements here, yet. If the forum becomes too expensive to operate, the administrators have a choice to make: sell the whole outfit to someone else, bring on co-administrators who have money but may or may not fit with the rest of the community, or run ads. Donations help prevent this situation from occurring.

To address the idea that some people got special treatment, that's how life works. You help with a start-up company, you may get the Executive Director of Some Department position because the people in charge know they can trust you. With the internet, trust is more important than ever. Very few would start a community and just open the doors for anyone to apply to be a moderator. Start with a core team you can trust. The team here didn't sign on because they got custom user-titles. I'd bet my own user-title on that. They signed on because they believe in the mission of the organization.

Those who donate to different causes, do you think they donate because of a paper that says "I donated to X"? Because of a shiny ribbon or such?

Your all missing the point and trying to twist my words in every way or maybe you just don't understand the basics of my statements.

@Eltu : Like I said, I only posted feedback, whatever you choose to do is fine by me.
And if your so persistent on turning everything to AF well, did you ever see someone who hasn't donated to the forum having a custom title or colored name ? (not mod or admin)
No, you haven't. Here on ToS its like you said yourself: " Some people asked an admin to have a unique title under their name and they got it". Simple as that.

@Sovereign: I agree with most things you said and yes, maybe I wouldn't have left out on the "colored style name and kewl title" bandwagon if I came online on Saturday instead of Sunday dohhhhhhhhh.


@Xynth: I'm sorry if you don't get how business works. I can honestly tell you that more then 60% on AF members donated the money simply because they like being special, meaning having something more then the other guy. And that's what you should be trading on if you ever want to make more then 30 bucks, sorry but that's the truth.

And where are you getting those statistics from?

It has been said, donations are made with the intention of keeping the site up and running. There is an incentive to donate with the user titles but the main point of donations is to keep the site going, not to obtain a custom title. The type of people who are members of this forum are not the type of people who would want to be singled out as superior, at least in my opinion. We are all here because we share a common interest, Avatar, and that common interest has (in most of us) incited a positive Na'vi-esque attitude.

If you think a custom title is the main incentive for donating, you're doing it wrong.
Donating is something OPTIONAL, for people who want to support the site. Enabling custom titles for people who have is just a small thing, which we are doing because it's a small gesture of thanks.
People who already have custom titles enabled have contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to ToS, including several people who have been in since the start but did not want to be a moderator or admin.

If you have any problems with our choices of moderator, please take it up in private with an admin, although personally I have not seen ANY mod abuse or anything else that would call for reviewing who was a moderator. Anyway, any forum needs some, and of course we are going to select active people who we trust.

As for 'more then 60% on AF members donated the money simply because they like being special' - I'd be interested to know where you get that from. Turns out I was one of the 'less than 40%' (which I doubt) who actually wanted to support the site that had helped them.

I Donated to AF quite early on after signing up, because being able to go on and read everyones thoughts and oppinions and offer mine where i could, well it meant enough to me that i wanted to support the site so that i'd be able to that in the future.

I Plan to donate to ToS soon too, not for custom title, not for anything fancy, but because this place already feels like my new home and i'd like to help out in anyway i can to make sure it stays here.. so if i can spare some money, i will!

@Xynth:

Like common sense?
You compared donating to charity or donating blood to a forum donation, which is just wrong because the one has nothing to do with the other.
Sure most people donate because they feel like they need to support the forum but there will always be those who will donate for different reasons and there are many of these people on AF, especially with it being popular and all. Popularity brings out all kinds of weirdos and its sad that I have to explain this here.

@to the rest who posted:
Custom title comes with the package, if you donated, you get to choose one. That said its ****ed up to see that you pass out free titles to friends and IRC buddies because they simply asked for it.It ruins the whole idea of donation for certain people.God If i'm gonna have to say this 1 more time to a guy who is too busy to read the whole thread before trying to write a half intelligent post I'm just going to explode! :)

This will be my last post cause in all my experience I can see where this is going, a lot of people that can't be asked reading the whole thread posting and flaming about stuff that has been explained 3 times already.

Just one last thing to say, if you decide to pass out whatever crap to IRC buddies then you will soon realize that nobody is going to donate, except for those 3 kids who's parents are too stupid to realize that they are using their credit card without em knowing.
Ever heard about business tactics? Because running a forum is a business. You will soon find out when you will have to bring up adds. Bring some common sense here please.

@ HumanNoMore: Please read the whole thread before posting, its really not cool for a head admin to be so ignorant. Oh and about the people who have donated SIGNIFICANTLY to ToS, your making me laugh man, it took maybe a whole 3 people to set up this place, 1 to get the hosting site, 1 to make the background image and 1 to buy the vbullet crap. 3-8=0 right? Oh yeah nvm, didn't know that you count in the people who were there when the site got up because your friends with them.
Anyway I'm sure there will be a juicy respond. Don't bother I'm not going to post in this thread again.

@All: This thread quickly turned into something its not. Its a feedback, not a flame thread. I expressed my feelings about it and that's it. If the admins are too stupid to realize that if you want to succeed in running a forum, you have to resort to different business tactics, not just waiting around and hopping that everyone will donate because they love sucking your ass or because everyone on this planet is so dam friendly to give up 30$ a month so that you can play more God every day.

/end rant.

Who are you to say those friend's/moderators haven't helped with other things in the past? CMQ has a history with AF, as well as HNM. Eltu, Thor, and zongtseng have known each other for a long time. They aren't simply members who came along, joined the forum, and asked to be moderators. They have contributed to other things in different ways, whether it be on this forum or some other one.

This is not a business. Period. And it never will be. The rest of that last rant is so unbelievably over the top and misinformed I'm not even going to touch it.

Oh, and yes, I read the whole thread.

Oh, I knew I wouldn't post again but I can't stop from posting when it comes to idiotic replies,
ITS NOT A BUSINESS?
Offering stuff for donation is a business
Paying vbulletin rights is business
Soon to have annoying adds on the forum is a business

I'm sorry but if your running this forum and treating it as not a business then good luck! I give it a month or two before this forums collides under the financial pressure, lets see how far you can run on good kiddo relations.
Not a business... statement of the week.

And yes I know, the rest of my post makes perfect sense, you just can't figure out a way to flame me more without realizing whats really going on so you decide to look the other way. Good admin attitude.

Oh and thanks for reading the whole thread.

1. Nothing was "offered" for donation. I clearly stated no one should donate because of the "perks". Read the announcement again.

2. Buying Vbulletin is a purchase I made three years ago, so no again.

3. We will never have ads. Period. We will shut down the site first.

4. I've run forums for 9 years without them ever being a business or making one cent of profit on them.

You don't know me, yet you make unbelievable leaps of assumption. I have no desire to fight with you or carry this further. Enjoy your day or night, whatever it may be where you are.

Not trying to be arguementive, but even in your starting post of this thread you are throwing insults around etc.

To me it just sounds like you're annoyed you don't have a custom title and you're trying to burn anyone that did get one. just chill out man. if it means that much, Donate! ;)

I honestly see no problem here at all. If people donate just because they want a custom title that's all ok. In fact, many if not all people want to be special in someway, many have custom avatar and sig, which btw makes it a lot easier to immediately identify the poster.

I don't know whether this information is correct, but I see no problem here, and i think those people do deserve to have the custom title. It may mean I respect their will to help the forums, but unless they post good posts they will not become special in any other way.

Like i said, people want to be special, and money doesn't matter so let them be.

You mean that idea when you say: " donate please but you won't get anything in return just a colored name and a custom title".
Yes, the master plan in this riddle is amazing!
vBulletin® Version 3.8.2 was released last year. Dam those numbers sure are confusing aren't they. And its still a business.
Really? I remember an admin saying the opposite in this same thread before, Oh my bad, its just one of the guys with custom title, silly me!

I'm glad to see that you have the dedication and financial support behind you to keep that record, assuming 9 is the right number, you seem to be confusing them a lot.

Have a nice day.

Actually, I meant where I said "you should only be donating if you feel it's something you'd like to do and you'd like to help support this community."

3.8.2 was released last year, yes. They are called updates, which required only a minimal yearly payment until VB4 came out. The original owned license was purchased in late 2006. Is this an IRS audit? Would you like a copy of the license?

Why are you so aggressive? The only person flaming here is you.

I think the whole idea of having comments under your name is retarded.
Only Admins used to have it back in the day but now its become epidemic.

If you haven't managed to read the thread I ranted out because I actually care and the whole problem here is that some people get special treatment just because they have the luxury of hanging on IRC whole day.
Its like AF all over again. Layers of social groups are already being created.

even a small minimal payment is still a business, your just kicking in the dark.
Yes I admit to flame around, but that's what one has to do when you got 10 different people bashing your every post in without reading anything at start.

If you don't mind I would like to end this discussion because its gotten out of hand anyways.
As I already said 5 times This is a FEEDBACK, I stated my feelings about the donation and that's it. Now if you would be so kind to lock the thread because I'm getting tired of all the none sense already. Thanks

Thread locked as per OP's request. This is not a business and never will be. We started this forum because we needed somewhere, and AF no longer felt like home to many of us. We are not doing this for any profit, indeed, these forums have already cost many of us a significant amount of money, which we are happy to pay to run them. In my case, I NEEDED to do this simply because for quite a long time, AF was the only thing that kept any kind of meaning in my life, and became unusable in the end for me.


If you think that the main point of donation is purchasing benefits on the forums, you are in the wrong place.