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-   -   Social, Economic and Political Perfectionism. (https://tree-of-souls.net/showthread.php?t=3623)

Spock 02-02-2011 08:18 AM

Social, Economic and Political Perfectionism.
 
I think we need to look deeper at what constitutes a successful civilisation, is it sustainability? Ambition? Equality?

Looking at these individually shows us that the Na'vi are not a perfect civilisation, but neither is humanity, from a human standpoint. The Na'vi lack ambition almost completely, however the maintain a sustainable society whereas we don't. By my logic I find the Na'vi less than perfect, I can say the same about humanity.

In the pursuit of perfection we must formulate hybrid social, economic and political structures.

Woodsprite 02-02-2011 08:25 AM

The Na'vi lack any advancement because they are in direct contact with their deity. There's no need for them (in their mindset) to advance because "Eywa will provide". If humans had the same connection to God, we'd be the same.

Tsyal Makto 02-02-2011 08:28 AM

I'd say the pinnacle of a species would be one that is able to become space-fairing without destroying the home-world in the process.

Whether that is possible is a whole 'nother matter completely. Which of those two options people value more (space travel vs the planet) is more of a personal matter of opinion.

I'd say the best route for humanity to go would be a resource-based economy. Lest we be destroyed by greed-driven, speculative trading (which is the inherent, destructive problem of a currency-based system).

The Venus Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My $0.02.

Banefull 02-02-2011 04:13 PM

Society is a reflection of our values. Ask someone here, across the globe, or across the universe what constitues a perfect society and you will get different asnwers. Taking the subjectivist stance here, everyone has their vision of what constitutes a perfect world. Ghandhi had his vision but so did Hitler. Some would consider a shopping mall to be a great achievement, others would call it a tragedy.

In short, perfection is how close society reflects a group of people's values. Society is whatever we want it to be.

Human No More 02-02-2011 11:00 PM

Success is stability. The ability to survive indefinitely, and doing so. Ambition is for its own sake and not indicative of success.

Woodsprite - you can't really compare a planet with no sentience to a world where just about every living thing is part of a neural network.

Woodsprite 02-02-2011 11:18 PM

I meant from their perspective as compared to ours, not necessarily the way things really are.

James of terra 02-03-2011 12:36 AM

Well to be success, has to be a group effort. Indivials, will not succed in the long run, everyone must work together, to change things. I think Habits of greed and waste must change and Technolgy, to help find better alteratives.

Raptor 02-03-2011 05:56 AM

I somehow think that the Na'vi will start pursuing some form of technology after they saw the destruction wreaked by the RDA. It would be prudent of them to formulate some form of sophisticated defense against the humans. Better be safe than sorry, and the battle for the Tree of Souls was awfully close. Too close for my liking. I do not like the enormous Na'vi casualties at all, and they and the entire moon of Pandora simply can't fight a war of attrition against the human-made weapons.

Woodsprite 02-03-2011 07:33 AM

And thus, from the development of technology, they will begin to become more like us. Even for the best intentions, the Na'vi, if headed towards a more fortified set of clans, will become like us. It's only a matter of time if they embrace advanced technology.

Raptor 02-03-2011 07:55 AM

I don't think embrace is the right word. I'm really hoping that they won't be consumed by technology like many of us are. Technology should be a tool that helps our lives, not be the factor that dominates us.

Woodsprite 02-03-2011 08:12 AM

I know. Everyone should treat it that way, and that's how it is at first.

...Then it gets the better of people. It took us a short time; it might take the Na'vi longer. Maybe even much, much longer. But it'll still happen eventually... if they go for the idea.

Tsyal Makto 02-03-2011 09:08 AM

Will the Na'vi develop technologically? Hmmm.

That depends? Is Eywa enough of a guardian? The only reason the battle was so close was because of her late intervention. From now on I bet she'll be much more alert, and more apt to deal with any intruders in a much more timely fashion.

Even if she isn't enough protection, will the Na'vi even need to develop anything themselves? Remember, the good humans control Hell's Gate and all tech on Pandora. They should be ample bodyguards if any extra force is needed to protect the planet.

Though even if the Na'vi do develop anything in the future, one thing is certain, it will be done in a way harmonious to nature. Harmony will be paramount in any Na'vi ventures in the future. I also never see them developing civilization as we know it. Any technology they develop (if any, and a rather hefty "if" at that), it will be within their traditional tribal lifestyles. (kinda like my techno-tribalism idea, which I personally consider to be the ideal society for humanity, though whether that will ever happen is another story).

Woodsprite 02-03-2011 09:33 AM

That makes me wonder about what will happen if the RDA returns. The marines on Pandora were there for the sole purpose of protecting the miners. They weren't there to wage war on anyone. Considering how they were made to return to earth, if the RDA returns, they're going to bring more than just an security force. If a simple security team of marines was able to defeat an army of 2000 Na'vi warriors before being overwhelmed by Eywa, imagine what a real army of marines could do. Eywa wouldn't stand a chance.

The Na'vi would have to advance themselves to survive the second wave, at the cost of future conflicts with themselves, becoming more like human civilizations, or suffer the wrath of the RDA's full capabilities if they don't advance themselves. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation for Pandora.

That's what I fear. :(

Empty Glass 02-03-2011 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite (Post 127025)
The Na'vi would have to advance themselves to survive the second wave, at the cost of future conflicts with themselves, becoming more like human civilizations, or suffer the wrath of the RDA's full capabilities if they don't advance themselves. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation for Pandora.

That's what I fear. :(

Me too, and that's what I hope doesn't happen. Ideally, they wouldn't develop rifts between clans.

I was thinking, maybe there's a chance that the Na'vi could do what seems unlikely for humanity as a whole: give up technology completely and go back to the way they were - the only way we've seen them. I'd imagine that such a point would occur when the RDA poses no more threat to Pandora and hence there's no more need to use technology for self-defense, but the problem is this: how would they know when that point would come?

Woodsprite 02-03-2011 10:42 AM

I don't know. Jake somehow "knew" that he was no longer needed to the Na'vi as "Toruk Makto", so he reverted back to who he was before: just a famous avatar. Perhaps the Na'vi will do the same.

Man, now you've given me hope! :D


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