Y'know, I have to confess I haven't done a whole lot of research into it. I was reading a commentary on it a few weeks ago, though; I might have to find it and read more before I post anything.


Banefull: would you say that the teachers at your school were very effective, high-quality teachers? (Or was there some other reason for the great results?)

I ask because I've been thinking that having great teachers is one of the best ways to produce results.

Definitely. Some teachers are far more enthusiastic than others, some treat their students with far more respect that others, and to be honest, some actually know the material they are teaching, while some, quite simply, do not. The former of each always produce far better results than the latter.

Ultimately, it comes down to the students themselves.

The best grades do not necessarily go to the smartest individuals but rather the hard working. Yeah sure intelligence makes it easier, but being "smart" is no guarantee. With the exception of the bottom rungs of the IQ ladder, just about everyone is far far more than smart enough to graduate from high school and go to college. Motivation is what matters. At the beginning of each semester or quarter, I can always tell whom among my fellow classmates is going to make it. If they're whispering about how useless this class is or texting during lectures, then you know that they will not make it. They are doomed in the long run.

While some teachers may be better than others, there is nothing wrong with the average teacher. Virtually every teacher wants to do his or her bets and see his or her students succeed (after all, no teach wants to be considered a "bad" teacher) but when your own students hardly seem interested, it really kills your spirit.

Demotivation is a deadly virus that is highly contagious. I have always noticed that the demotivated students often drag other students with them into the demotivational cesspit of no return. Its important to get children into the mindset of expecting to learn. Teachers play a role in building expectations and motivations; however, parents, community, acedemic standards, being challenged, and discipline especially in school play a huge role also.

If you take a look at some poor communities which have absolutely appalling graduation rates, it often comes down to the mindset. If you're growing up in a neighborhood where gangs are commonplace, you grow up observing everyone else. They subconciously send messages that you aren't going to graduate. It's not that they can't graduate from high school but that they come to believe that they can't and thus never bother to try. Look at the attendence rates in many failing shcools if you need proof.

Look at certain asian countries that produce phenomenal rates of excellent graduates (South Korea and Japan in particular). Is it because they are just smarter? or because they are better motivated? Look at their ethics regarding school. Walk into a kindergarten school in one of those countries and note how all of the students sit patiently and eagerly await learning, and then look at your nearby primary school with all of the students running around and screaming.

Well, I never went to school until college so I don't feel I have much to say :P I did love that video, Aquaplant.

However, I will say this: I wish I would have taken my education more seriously when I was younger. I wish I would have loved learning as much back then as I do now. IMO, one important problem is finding ways to help young people to love learning.

That's about all I have to say about that, for now at least

I think the Khane Academy is so awesome, and I only discovered it a few weeks ago. It's a VERY useful link for people who actually want to learn things without having to worry about the teacher's available time. There are a ton of other resources like that that can help you understand the concept you are learning.

Now, the purpose of education is a touchy subject for me at the moment, because I believe that there is going to be a massive revolution in education with online schools becoming so popular. My sister is in an online school while I'm in a public high school, and I tutor her in Algebra and Chemistry, so I see exactly how her online school is formatted, and I can truly say that I like what I see. Locally, there's been this big push for increasing the importance of being educated online. People have different ideas on this, I've discovered.

I know people who believe that online education should still entail going to class, but for a reduced time, like college. Independent learning would take place online with resources available to those who would learn from them.

Personally, being able to compare online vs. public schools, I can see a few fatal flaws with both of them. Public schools are not NEARLY as efficient as online schools. At the same time, online schools do not allow for that socialization that is actually very important that teens make use of. Socialization at this age helps people develop in a way that fits the status quo, and while this isn't totally desirable by today's standards, it's still better than having people be isolationists. The other problem with online schools is the weaknesses of attempting kinesthetic learning. In high school, I went through CAD for solid modeling, and the technology and hardware that I've used is definitely NOT feasible for the average consumer to buy.

This being said, I think that online schools can be used for most classes like English (or whatever language), Math, Science, Social Studies, Foreign Languages, etc; however, tech institutions would need to be made and collaborate with the online agenda in order to appropriate the use of the credit system. Science labs, wood working, metal fabrication, construction, and other tech categories would be able to be accomplished in public and still allow for proper schooling online. Obviously the school days online are shortened to compensate for these public classes.

Understand that I do not think that there is much wrong with the idea of having a general education in high school like some people blame. I've found that this knowledge base that we get in high school is necessary to get through the higher level of content, and that everything just builds on the previous concept. It certainly didn't feel that way my freshman year when I was first taking algebra, let me tell you. However, the idea behind grades controlling how our life will follow up drives me nuts. Grades are an absolutely horrible means of identifying how much a person is taking in. They don't compensate for time and they don't compensate for those people who can actually understand a concept without doing all of the practice work (a little bit of the practice work is necessary to ingrain the concept in your head though).

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Now, the type of schooling that we get is online one side of the coin. People need to be willing to learn and truly try to put their best out there. It's been said before, I've seen it, teachers have seen it, the state and national leaders have hopefully seen it, but students lack the drive to go through school. I think this boils down to one reason: school is mandatory and is commonly available. In the past, if you could get educated, then it was a huge benefit and could mean that you would get a high paying job and increase your financial standing. With colleges today being so expensive and the job market looking bad on the surface, not many people are motivated to continue schooling for what could result in a huge waste in time and money.

The high status quo today seems to be to not care about school because "everyone else is doing it." God I'm glad I live in the country. I hate associating myself with most of the people at my school, I'm not going to lie. I don't know where my dad got this notion that high school is the golden years of anyone's life, but it certainly hasn't been that way for me. Mostly this is because my demographic drives me nuts, but also because I feel so trapped living where I am. I can go online and SEE all the things out there in the world, but I lack the financial and time needs to actually do some of this stuff.

I have read through this entire thread and all of you have some good ideas as to why our education system is broken. The school has a two fold purpose regardless of where you go (public school, private school, online/home, etc). the first is academic and the second is social. They are both very important but it is clear that one of the two aspects is neglected in most schools these days and that is academic. Very few are teaching logic, critical thinking, basic facts on science, history, math, English or another foreign language, etc. a few of my friends are teachers and even my husband taught a couple of classes years ago. They all tell me that it is extremely tough on them. Its not that they are bad teachers. They aren't. The problem is with the administration and the parents who short change the children.

Some of the stuff that is taught in school is a waste of time. When I was in high school, I learned more on my own than I did in the actual classes. I admit, I slept through several classes and yet I came out with good grades (except for math and chemistry. I didn't do to well on those :( ).

I agree with Baneful who said that demotivation is a driving factor in failing schools. Many of these kids are coming from homes that do not reinforce the need for education which is very sad because they are practically set up for failure. Also, what Tsyal Makto said about the lack of hands on learning is especially important. Even when I was in school, although we had a few hands on activities in biology and chemistry, there was still a grave lack of activities that would help to understand the concepts. This is also true in regards to field trips and other activities that would help to not only make learning interesting but it might help to inspire the kids. There is such a lack of imagination and inspiration anymore in teaching children.

As for as online/home schooling, I was home schooled when I was a child and I took some online classes for college. I can honestly say that there are pros and cons to both. One of the pros is the fact that academics can be learned at your own pace and you develop good skills of figuring things out yourself, etc. However, home schooling is as good as the person teaching it (ie. parent or someone else). In my case, my mother (God bless her) did her best. She taught me to read and write but on everything else, she was sorely lacking in the skills necessary to teach math or science or even history. Nor did she have any artistic skills. So, I struggled through math although my brother sailed through because he figured it out himself. As for as science, we learned the very, very basics which is fine in grammar school but not for the higher grades. As for as history, I generally learned that on my own and looking back now, the books that my mom used were woefully inadequate. Sadly, we didn't get any education on music, art, theater, etc when we were in grammar school. It wasn't until later, when we went to a regular public school that we learned any of that.

The major drawback for home/online school is the lack of socialization. Granted, these days it is easier to find some sort of network home school group that gets together for activities, etc but back in the 80's there wasn't that kind of network so it took me a while to be socialized. I'm going to have to disagree with Woodsprite that school is only for academics and nothing else. It is crucial to learn social skills because we are social creatures and you are going to have to learn to get along with other people for the rest of your life. In a home school environment, you are insulated. Sure, there are social interactions with siblings, etc but you are still insulated in a like-minded group instead of learning to interact with other people who look/talk/act/think different from you. In an increasingly global society, it is very important to learn how to work with different groups of people.

In my case, since my dad was in the Army, we came into contact with different groups of people and some of my friends back then came from very different backgrounds than my own. However, that wasn't enough. I still needed the socialization that only a school could give.

The education system is broken and its in desperate need of reform. There are many reasons why it has happened. I know that these problems go back more than 40 years so nothing is going to change overnight. However, the only thing that can happen is for us to take control of our own educations and continue to learn, to improve ourselves, and open our minds to new ideas/ etc. That is the only way.