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-   -   Why Does Everyone Love "2001: A Space Odyssey"? (https://tree-of-souls.net/showthread.php?t=3952)

Aaron 04-03-2011 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashen Key (Post 137475)
No idea - I really dislike the movie, actually. The book is okay - but my favourite is 2010 (of which there is no movie of. Nope. No movie, because if there was a movie, I'd have to burn it for BUTCHERING the book).

But the movie 2001....eh. So boring.

The novel of 2010, like 2001, is indeed quite good. Many wonderful things, such as...
Spoiler: Spoilers 
...which are nowhere in the movie. Really, the movie of 2010 could be remade without offending too many people. They should do that. :)

Ashen Key 04-03-2011 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eywa's Pet (Post 137476)
The novel of 2010, like 2001, is indeed quite good. Many wonderful things, such as...
Spoiler: Spoilers 
...which are nowhere in the movie. Really, the movie of 2010 could be remade without offending too many people. They should do that. :)

2010 is actually one of my all time favourite books :) I LOVE it. Friendship and science geekery and yes. But, the movie? Kill. It. With. Fire. They butchered it.

Human No More 04-03-2011 02:45 PM

Honestly, I've never got around to seeing it. I've always meant to read the book before I did (films of books are almost always worse), but still haven't read the book yet (yeah, I know, I should...)

Sempu 04-03-2011 04:58 PM

In the case of 2001, the film and the book were created concurrently. The inspiration for the movie was Arthur C. Clarke's short story "The Sentinel," but that covers only a fraction of the movie. Clarke and Kubrick agreed to mirror credits on the movie and book; the book came out very soon after the movie and contains a couple of minor differences.

I'd recommend seeing the movie first. Reading the book provides explanations for what's in the movie; once you have those you can never see the movie without being aware of those explanations and it is much harder to come up with your own creative interpretation.

2010 was the "Midichlorian" treatment for an earlier generation...

The Man in Black 04-03-2011 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite (Post 137439)
Shouldn't movies, by definition, have the answer embedded just clearly enough so that an average audience could grasp its intent?

No. This is what separates "aesthetics" from "poetics."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsprite (Post 137466)
Well, I have been educated in the art of film (and rightly so, considering my major is related to it), and I'd rather rely on actual, empirical reasons behind storytelling than vague references that signify imagery and random thought about the universe. I'm not trying to be pretentious or anything, but I am saying that just because a message may be behind the whole thing doesn't make it "correct" in film. There's a reason why no other film has done the same thing. My contention is: it's because it simply doesn't work.

Kubrick made "Eyes Wide Shut," which I thought was a terrible film. Was it because I "didn't understand it" or "didn't possess enough of a 'mental capacity' to appreciate it?" Was it because I "have a lack of seasoned movie-going experience to draw a proper opinion of it?" I've been accused of all of these for criticizing both "Eyes Wide Shut" and "2001." I resent that, coming from others.

Storytelling... Stephen King is a storyteller. Steven Spielberg is a storyteller. Christopher Nolan is a storyteller. Cameron Crowe is a storyteller. Frank Herbert was a storyteller. James Cameron is a storyteller.

Kubrick... is more of a visionary, but not a storyteller. I realize how many people -- educated people -- I'm going against in this assertion. I realize my bounds, but I stand by what I say, nevertheless. No offense taken from anyone who may enjoy/like Kubrick's films (particularly "2001"); I'm not against anyone for liking any film. But what I am against is praising a film as "a great work in the history of filmmaking" when there are clearly fundamental mistakes with it. Where's the plot? Where's the storyline? Where's the intrigue? You can get a mind-blowing sci-fi film like "Moon," which possesses many elements of "2001," but more-importantly, contains a story and plot, along with characters you care about.

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm simply referring to the many films before and since that have been rightly praised for their storytelling ability. "2001" contains almost none of the fundamentals of filmmaking. Was this because it was and is "ahead of its time?" I don't believe so. I think it's because Kubrick was merely invisioning his idea of the future on screen, and had absolutely no plan to turn it into a story. To my knowledge, he just filmed some footage and spliced it together in chronological order in a way he thought "meaningful." I've read the script to "2001;" it's as absorbing as reading stereo instructions. There's no point except to contemplate the idea it presents; that's not, according to the many books I've read, what film is about. Film is the visual art of storytelling. That's what it is. That's its primary purpose. You may have ideologies presented in them, but they're still stories.

As far as Kubrick's reasons may go, I don't personally know them. From what I can deduct, however, is that the reasons he may have done certain things may have been "good reasons" for him, but not according to the other great storytellers of the world. Many of them have praised "2001," I understand. But it comes to reason that such praise may be hypocritical, considering how no one else will ever do the same thing.

I think you're looking at this in an overly-structured way. I'll pose this question so you can understand what I mean by that: Why is it that movements like Dadaism, especially in film, were considered groundbreaking?

Woodsprite 04-04-2011 12:03 AM

Maybe because no one had ever seen such methods before. Maybe it was like Treebeard's logic among the public, "Well, that doesn't make much sense to me... but then, you are very small. Perhaps you're right." Actually, we find that to be the case with many issues around the world; not just film.

Sempu 04-04-2011 04:40 AM

Hah, so funny you should bring up Treebeard. I was about to make the comparison that I, for instance, find The Lord of the Rings immensely boring. (Bet that just lost me some friends.) I could go into detail about just how turgid I think it is, but I am forced to believe by the number of highly intelligent people whom I respect that love LOTR to pieces that it is in fact not just a piece of cr*p.

That doesn't mean that I have to force myself to appreciate it; I'm not short on things that I do like. I'm just not going to assume that it's bad just because I don't like it.

The Man in Black 04-04-2011 07:06 PM

Treebeard is the man.

SaphirJD 04-05-2011 12:26 AM

Well, here my part as a simple minded being.. The movie is just Awesome :) And i guess the higher your brain functions are, the more you can think about it :)

For me... Enjoyment :D

auroraglacialis 04-05-2011 01:35 PM

I am ambiguous about that movie. I did not mind the narrative techniques like long scenes - they give a sense of the timeframes the universe operates and at which real space travel works. Also obviously they wanted to let you appreciate the design of the set and all that. What I disliked was that overly long scene with the visual effects near the end. Part of it was of course because I did not understand the meaning of it, but that was inten tional, but part was just seeing visuals without anything to think about - maybe taking a bit of LSD before the movie makes it more interesting :LOL: ;) - given the time of its origin.
I liked the realistic depiction of space travel and of course I liked the AI gone mad. What I did not like so much was the thing with the monoliths. The story there goes a bit like that they represent leaps in evolution of humankind. I have several problems with that. The film did a good job depicting a certain philosophy in that respect though - my disagreement is more with the philosophy behind it. My issues with that are that the film wants to present certain steps in history as "evolutionary leaps" like the invention of weapons or flying to the moon. I disagree that these are so clearly defined steps. The other assumption is that there is a linear, progressive development in humans, from ugly and dumb stone age ape-men to enlightened space-beings. I do not believe in a directed evolution in that sense. But nevertheless as I said, the film did present the philosophy it wanted to very well.

Sempu 04-05-2011 03:38 PM

I recall reading once that the human race was on the verge of extinction at some point in prehistory - don't recall how long ago, when something happened that caused its population decline to reverse dramatically and we have never looked back. No one understands what made the change. This is my vague recollection FWIW.

auroraglacialis 04-05-2011 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sempu (Post 138003)
I recall reading once that the human race was on the verge of extinction at some point in prehistory - don't recall how long ago, when something happened that caused its population decline to reverse dramatically and we have never looked back.

Hehe, maybe a black monolith?
Population bottleneck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However, that point was within the past 100.000 years, probably around 70.000 years ago - there are a couple of theories about that - what caused it and what followed from that. In any case, this is not even 50% of the timeframe of homo sapiens and only a fraction of the history of humans in general. At that time, much of the later tools and techniques were already present (like hunting equipment, stone and bone tools,...).
Still, it is interesting.

LOVEavatar 04-05-2011 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sempu (Post 138003)
I recall reading once that the human race was on the verge of extinction at some point in prehistory - don't recall how long ago, when something happened that caused its population decline to reverse dramatically and we have never looked back. No one understands what made the change. This is my vague recollection FWIW.

Volcanic winter, caused by the worlds so far biggest known eruption to date withing the history of humans, Toba - Indonesia.

http://science.nasa.gov/media/medial...anicwinter.jpg

Volcanic winter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Icu 04-05-2011 07:54 PM

I came back to this thread after only reading the first few posts to see ^^that^^ and I'm thinking "WTF?"

2001 A Space Odyssey? Volcanic Winter? :) Anyway don't mind me I'm just pointing out how hilariously random that was to me. Carry on.

LOVEavatar 04-05-2011 07:55 PM

Just wanted to fill in the gaps ;)


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