That's it. I'm moving when I get my degree.
 

Republicans. **** you. I quit, enjoy your debt and delusions.

ThinkProgress


This is the last straw. I now declare America deceased.

...oh, they didn't. Tell me they didn't. Yes, let's just punish raped women EVEN MORE, and make their recovery EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. (And what happens when it's CHILDREN who are raped and now pregnant? Think of the damn children, indeed) *rages*

Gah, I'm so sorry.

That's so horrible..:S It reminds me of what if happening at the moment with women in the Australian Defence Force...

Welcome to the club.

This is why I like animals so much.

With them, the only crap you have to put up with with is literal.

I'm sorry... last I checked, killing babies for the sake of rapists was considered an idiotic thing to do. How exactly is aborting an unwanted child somehow "justified" because it was conceived through rape? It's a child, regardless. Does the child get to choose how or why it was conceived? :hmm: It's like no one here is thinking of the kid. Why does abortion always have to be publicized as "all about the mom's choice?" It's not.

Ah, so you are one of the "think of the foetus, screw the mother" types. Good to know. -_-

So killing another to make one "feel better" is somehow... fine? Two wrongs make a right; end justifies the means. Very logical...

Funny. Last I checked, a foetus wasn't medically concerned a person. It should be up to the MOTHER to decide. If she wants to consider the collection of cells within a person, more the power to her. If she doesn't, she shouldn't be forced to go through pregnancy and birth.

And thank you for being so utterly inconsiderate towards women and girls who suffer the trauma of rape. But, hey, at least I know you don't support my right to my own body!

(But please, please tell me that you at least support universal health-care so the mother doesn't have to bear the financial burden of a child you won't let her abort when still not yet a person. And please tell me you are also in favour of paid maternity leave, and improved adoption and child services, so if she chooses to give the child up because she is unable - emotionally or otherwise - to care of for it, it's not going to be bounced from foster home to foster home.

Please tell me this, because then I at least understand somewhere where you are coming from, beyond holding up a collection of cells as being more important than a living, breathing girl or woman.

Of course, if you are in favour of, say, eleven-year-old children being forced to give birth - which has happened - I've got nothing more to say to you on this topic)

I detect... ill.

(If this goes any further, it should be moved to the debate section.)

I'd like to see some scientific evidence for this. I've seen plenty for the argument of those who believe it's a child that lives, starting from conception. I've personally known quite a few young (and older) women who would disagree with you, concerning how a fetus isn't a living child, especially those whom I have sat with in sympathy and comfort, knowing full-well what abortions can be like, and how they can psychologically hurt the mother more than the rapist ever could have.

Yes Ashen Key, I know what it feels like to personally sit up all night with those who've gone through circumstances where abortions, in almost every single case, were coerced by either the parents, peers, or the abortionist when in doubt in the final hour. I've experienced the first-hand stories of those who were raped (yes, raped), and later deeply regretted what they did to themselves and their babies after going through an abortion.

Yes Ashen, I've gone through what no person should go through concerning counseling of others in such pitiful situations, where they wish they could go back in time and reverse their irreversible decision. You have no idea what it's like to go through such pain, Ashen. No idea. Sometimes I wish I could erase my memory for all the terrible things I've heard such things in this subject. Do you know what it's like to actually be able to feel the small baby scrambling and writhing inside you while it's slowly cut up into pieces at only weeks old? or experiencing the trauma afterward, of watching the pieces being sucked out of you? or how many times I've heard respectable doctors say how it is indeed dangerous at times in the abortion clinic? I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to be in any of these women's places.

You insult my intelligence by assuming I'm some sort of "crazy, conservative, 'screw-the-mother'" type who has no care for anything but his own personal motivation to uphold some "faulty" principle that has no meaning except to those who have no clue about the real world. You may not have said it, but I can sense it.

You read an article about a mother who wants to abort a baby because she was raped, and you automatically think it's wrong to prevent such a thing from happening because you think the mother, who's in absolutely no physical danger whatsoever, somehow has a right to dispose of the unwanted even when it's been shown by many sources I've read to be an obvious child that lives inside the mother? I don't know how many secular, nonsensical articles you've read about some "right to choice" that the mother has to declare, "I'm my own woman," but you're mistaken to think that this is a subject that has been hammered down as "fully addressed." It's ironic to note how every mother who claims "right to choice" was never chosen to be arborted, and considering how the child has no choice at all. That's blind, sickening, sexist-feminist hogwash if I ever heard any.

Don't you ever, ever presume to know my intentions about such a sensitive subject again when you haven't the first clue about what you're talking about. Do you hear me?

I have nothing more to add.

I apologize for insulting you, quite sincerely.

But I will not, and never will, apologize for my position on woman's rights and a woman's right to chose to take what control she can over her own body and her own life. So, yes, I do believe on this we have nothing further to say to each other.

they could use the foetus' for their stem cells

*is it spelt fetus or foetus? anyway, its a waste of a dying fetus. why not use one life to possibly save many

You volunteering to carry it to term?


If yes, be my guest good sir, if not, shut the **** up because odds are, you will never suffer rape. Not only is this an assault on women's rights, it a blatant attack on the separation of church and state.

Join the club, Isard.

Next stop, the United States of Canada. I would be moving to Italy if 'ol Silvio wasn't such an asshat.

Regardless of what his reasons are, there are other reasons for thinking abortions are immoral than just religion. For example, my philosophy professor from last semester was not religious but held the belief that abortion was wrong on other moral grounds.

I'm not really trying to say anything specific here, because I know religion is obviously the most cited reason, but I just wanted to point that out.

And I guess this just comes down to if you think abortion is murder. If yes, then since I don't like killing anyone, I'd rather not. If no then personal rights all the way. And again, that's probably more of a philosophical question than anything else. Personally I don't think it's murder so I don't think abortions should be illegal, but hey I know smart, sane people who disagree for legitimate reasons. I guess I'm trying to say that the "other side" isn't necessarily as stupid as you'd like to think they are, even if certain people in the groups are.

Highlighted is the statement that, probably, should prevail. In first place, as mentioned, the child was conceived by rape. It means that the "child" was conceived against the desire of the mother. It means someone was forced, in what probably is one of the most horrendous experiences that a woman could live: to receive genetic material from a criminal through violence and, to add insult to injury, as a result of such action, the victim must carry along with a pregnancy that should have never happened. It's rape, it's a crime. As for how aware a fetus is, there's plenty of debate about it, but consider that a considerable portion of people in irreversible vegetative status exhibits behavior that could be considered like a concious act.

Absolutely. When you hear of babies being delivered at 21-24 weeks surviving, it does make you think! Babies don't just "appear" at nine months, after all, so where do you draw the line? I, personally (and perhaps despite being non-religious! ;)), have a very hard time simply accepting anybody's definition of "the beginning," as goes human life, which is why I'm so on-the-fence about this issue. On the one hand, I accept that there may be situations where abortion is the Right Thing. On the other hand, I admit: It's difficult for me to abstractly describe what those situations are.

Rape is obviously terrible, but is also added here mainly as a polarizing factor, as if being in any way anti-abortion is somehow being pro-rape. Clearly that is not the case! :shock: It's important, I think, to strive to separate the reason the baby (or fetus, or whatever) is there from what to do about it. You really do have to separate the thinking there, or else you are being morally corrupted by your emotions. My opinion. ;)

*smh*

There isn’t some big conspiracy on the pro-life side to simply limit women’s rights. I’m all for expanding women’s rights; however, I think that rights have limitations especially when they infringe upon the rights of other groups (in this case the unborn). Please don't paint us as somehow being pro-rape or anti-woman. Using such ad hominems is an excuse to avoid rational debate about the actual issue.

Canada is out too. Their conservative party is going even beyond ours in terms of asshattery. They're screening attendees to political conferences. Australia is the best place for young professionals to head for. Inflation's pretty bad, hole in the ozone layer, but their economy is relatively stable otherwise, and their conservatives are just concerned over size A breasts and blood in video games. I can live with that. I cant live under biblical law.

But they aren't using them. Their response is "Because God made it happen for a reason" This is a cancer within the Republican party that has almost completely taken over. The past two years they have gone from conservatives, to full on regressive, theocratic regressives. Worse still, it shows no signs of stopping. So, since they can magically make voters come out of the woodwork to support their agendas during voting season (who all dissapear under rocks somewhere in the midwest afterwords) Then they can keep whats becoming a running joke of a country and I'll go somewhere else. Everybody wins. Except the women, minorities, and homosexuals who can't get out of course. Kinda sucks to be them, but nothing else I can do for them really.

I wasn't talking about "them" I was talking about the actual issue divorced from all of the politically charged language.

It sounded like not supporting abortion was equivalent to being a "right wing religious nut-job" or whatever and I wanted to point out that this isn't always the case. Sure it is sometimes, but generalizations like that make me uncomfortable to say the least. And on the other side, those who support abortion are not necessarily the murderous, amoral, irreverent people that they can be made out to be, though of course you'd agree with that :)

Basically it seemed like a really black and white issue (thanks to this politically charged language, which almost forces you to "pick a side") and I think it's a lot more gray than either side would care to admit.

Abortion comes down to this in the end. Who are you going to tell to go **** themselves, the woman, or the fetus? No middle ground. Unless you're a guy and you don't care either way (or a woman and fixed). That works too.

As soon as the sperm fertilizes the egg and cellular division begins that’s when new life exists.

If you allow women to get an abortion purely because they say they’ve been raped then that would become the new avenue they would take to get rid of a “mistake” if a regular abortion is no longer an option. Abortions cannot be seen as the ultimate form of birth control.

I got my first girlfriend pregnant and because I couldn’t buy her a very expensive ring she left me and had an abortion. That was a bit unfair to me wouldn’t you say? I should be a father right now with a six year old son or daughter and I think about that everyday. I have to live with the fact that my ex-girlfriend ended the life of my child purely based on the fact that I could not afford a clear rock mounted on a piece of metal. Allowing women to just go right in and have an abortion is wrong because it can be done for the wrong reasons. I am one of the men who does care and I was very excited about being a father, but that was ripped away from me in a moment of pure evil and greed.

So what would you tell all of the people who disagree with you on philosophical grounds, plenty of whom I'm sure are smarter than any of us? "I know this is your field, but you should just trust me on this one. Take it from me, everything you and your buddies have been thinking is wrong. I promise"

As if they'd just roll over and die. I don't think you're in any position to declare this debate "solved" in your favor. Having an opinion is one thing, but suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you is automatically stupid or definitively "wrong" (as if it were some math problem with a right answer) is quite different. This works from both sides and is exactly why politics is so polarized.

So there aren't any fertile women who are pro-life? You sir are greatly mistaken and its not just a small number either.

If thats not enough then consider this: In the original case of Roe vs Wade that resulted in the legalization of abortion in the U.S., Jane Roe the very woman whose case it was, is now pro-life herself. In fact she heads an organization dedicated to the pro-life side and to reverse what happened during her case. She even wrote a book about her regret of what happened in the past.

I think you missed what I said...


I said that if you are pro life, you're siding with the fetus, pro choice, the mother. There is no middle ground here, either its legal to have an abortion, or its not. Or, you could not care either way (aka: A guy, or a woman who will never have the option)

Perhaps I did misunderstand, sorry if I did.


But I thought I would post this: Norma McCorvey Biography aka Jane Roe
Most people don't actually know what really happened in Roe vs Wade.

And here is Roe's own personal website.

[QUOTE=Woodsprite;138857]Do you know what it's like to actually be able to feel the small baby scrambling and writhing inside you while it's slowly cut up into pieces at only weeks old? or experiencing the trauma afterward, of watching the pieces being sucked out of you?QUOTE]

But at a few weeks old, would it actually feel anything? It takes longer than a few weeks for it to grow a brain, heart, etc., no? Also, isn't the mother sedated...? And I thought the doctors just cut the umbilical cord. Why would they cut the fetus up?

I'm sorry, I'm still in school and I haven't learned about this sort of stuff yet.

I'm not sure what to think about this. Indeed, I feel it's a natural right for a women have full control of her life, and yet, it's still a living being. *sigh* I'm torn, but I'm leading towards no. If the doctors are absolutely sure that a fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks, I say hell no to abortion at that time because to do that is completely f***ed up.

Australia is if anything worse, their censorship laws make them the China or Iran of the western world.
Honestly though, every country has political idiots.

It's not that bad... Besides, as far as happiness goes, there are no happier (and as a whole, well off) people than Aussies. Low poverty, no ****ing winter. No Republicans. Win win win win win.

Rape is a crime, to force a woman to continue a pregnancy derived from a rape is very likely to do more damage to the woman in the long term than the death of the future child. To get an abortion with no real basis, like the sad case that Eternal Enigma exposes, is also a crime. So... difficult decision for the woman, but in the end, in the particular case of rape, abortion should be an option. For other cases, probably won't be necessary.

Exactly, and if we continue to promote sex education and fund groups like Planned Parenthood, unintentional pregnancies will slowly but steadily fall. Oh, wait, except we're halting sex ed and defending Planned Parenthood. herp derp.

Low poverty..
Kind of, if you can even afford a house or to be able to rent one. >.<
Other than that, we aren't doing that bad.. Our conservatives mainly concern themselves with video game classification and the like. As far as I know, we're the only western country without a R rating. :S

The scary thing is: 1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).

Worldwide, approximately 42 million abortions occur per year.

Halting sex ed??? Are we going backwards?
Abortion is such a controversial issue... I think like this: Women do have the right to decide what to do with their bodies, no doubt about it. However, pregnancy involves another potential human being. From the moral point of view, as I have explained, a conception through rape is something that should have never happened, then the creature resulting from this should have never existed. On the other hand, when a woman goes to a party to have sex with whoever she wants and gets pregnant is completely different, to begin, the sex encounter was supposed to happen and, therefore, the risks taken were known. So, if that woman gets an abortion is criminal, because the creature resulting from this was not the product of a crime, the creature, in this case, IMHO deserves full protection from the Law.
Those are scary numbers, what a waste of human lives...

April 14th is the closely approaching anniversary and it is something that weighs heavily on my mind especially in the month of April.

In today’s age of partying and “hooking up” abortion has become the ultimate form of birth control. If there’s a lack of contraceptive involved women can’t have the view that “O’well I’ll just have an abortion I’ve already have five this year anyways.” Then again if abortion is illegalized only to the exception of those who are rape victims then every woman who shows up for an abortion will say they’ve been raped if it’s true or not.

The only reason abortion should even be on the table is in the instance that doctors are able to confirm without a shadow of a doubt that the unborn child will be underdeveloped in an inhumane way, which would render the child incapable of living a meaningful life. If the child is going to be a vegetable its entire life I could see why the parents may make the mutual decision to abort the pregnancy. Sure, you could go through with that sort of pregnancy, but the inescapable reality is that both parents will eventually get old and will become unable to take care of this child who needs care 24/7 from now on. So that’s the only area where an abortion should even be considered.

For those who accidently get pregnant they should not be able to view abortion as a way to “fix the problem.” If you give them that right then that’s what it’ll be. If you don’t want children don’t have sex, use the proper contraceptives if you do, or get fixed so you can’t. SIMPLE!

For those who are rape victims… the majority of real rapes end with the woman being found dead so pregnancy really isn’t an issue.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000
In my city, most rapist are close relatives. Regulation should be that a woman, in order to get an abortion, should have the crime reported to local authorities, which then should investigate if there was such a crime... far from ideal... given the time restraints, but it's much better than leaving it to each one's criteria.

There's no way I'll believe this unless you give me a solid statistic/source.

Edit: I found a source of my own. "A very small number of rape victims are murdered: about .01 percent (that figure includes unreported as well as reported rapes)."

http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Anthology/Women/rape.htm

And from another "What is clear is that in percentage terms very, very few rape victims do get murdered."

In my city “rape” comes about when a woman doesn’t get her way.

I could accept that. If a woman has been raped and does not end up dead she should immediately file a report and go through the proper motions. In that case going to a hospital soon after being raped could stop any rape made pregnancy before it occurs making an abortion unnecessary.

Another of my personal opinions is that all males should be given the option to have a vasectomy when they turn 18. Not a subject most guys want to talk about I know. It’s a routine operation that can be reversed in the event that the male decides he wants children. When you get a vasectomy they give you the option to freeze some of your sperm just incase.

Instead of killing accidental life I would rather have the option of preventing it when it’s unwanted.

I personally know about 16 women who would strongly disagree with you.