"3 mags, 80 rounds..."
 

This refers to the deleted scene where SecOps and the conscripted miners load up for the attack on the Well of Souls. However, one dumb thing struck me. What kind of SecOps idiot would think that 80 cartridges can be divided between 3 magazines? And what kind of moron would give each personnel 80 rounds? Typical load-out today is 210 rounds (many soldiers and Marines will load as much as 360). Maybe ammunition is more effective in 2154 (perhaps they're multi-firing?), but considering how they simply let loose with fully automatic fire during the battle, how are they ever going to expect 80 rounds to last?

My guess is whatever they're using must not need a lot of rounds to do a lot of damage. However, you make a valid point with fully auto-fire. Maybe that was part of the reason they didn't keep that scene in any of the movie versions.

Can't recall the scene exactly, but maybe he meant 3 magazines with 80 rounds in each magazine? That seems like an awful lot in one magazine, but it makes more sense than the other way and it does give each man 240 rounds.

The way the person said it doesn't seem to convey 80 rounds per magazines. I maybe wrong, but judge for yourself.

"3 mags, 80 rounds. Make them last, make them count."

If it really is 80 rounds, then another realization is that these magazines would hold a pathetically small amount number of cartridges by today's standards. However, the nature of the ammunition maybe different, so this may be a moot point.

But even 240 rounds doesn't seem enough to sustain the fully automatic fire that we're seeing in the battle. If anyone here has served as infantry, maybe he/she can give us some insights on load-outs, but my common sense is saying that the amount of ammo isn't enough.

The kind written by someone who just put a bunch of numbers in the script without thinking about it? *shrugs* Those kinds of errors, I attribute to the writer rather than the character. The SecOps guys are professionals, of course they'd know.

But you can write it as that's the kind of magazine they have for that particular weapon, given it's all space-fantasy/cyberpunk, 'look, we have giant mecha, we aren't being that realistic'. Or, uh, just Cameron's error. Because you're right, that seems a ridiculously low number (uh, not that I'm infantry! I just read a lot)

They aren't exactly written as intelligent characters :P

It seems low, I guess, but then again, they weren't expecting what did happen :D

I'm probably going to get blasted here... this seems to be a fairly intense discussion, but here you go....

Two 25 round mags and one 30 round mag. That equals 80 rounds/3mags. Or if you prefer... 3 Mags, 80 Rounds. Who knows how SecOps configured their load outs? As well, who knows what the writer was thinking when he/she scripted this line? When I saw and heard this passage in the film, I didn't give it much thought. The point came across just fine, and it didn't detract from the "authenticity" of the story one bit. The phrase "Make it Count" seemed to re-enforce the premise that whoever was charged with those 80 rounds had better place them effectively, given all of the nasties that Pandora had to offer in the way of "things that might bite you, sting you, or otherwise kill you and eat you.

Tey'Kan

I agree Tey'Kan.
Usually in situations like these where there's no way to know what the writer or story characters actually meant, I like to just go with what makes the most sense when possible, and I like the idea of each mag having 80 rounds. I feel like if it were 80 rounds divided, he'd have said "80 rounds, 3 mags" instead of the other way around.

By today's standards, an 80 round magazine would be quite large, depending what size round you were using. But on Pandora, anything is possible.

I could just imagine an 80 round mag for the "M-4" (Short barreled M-16). At best, I think I'd have to "duck tape" two 40 round magazines together, and then flip over to the second mag when I used up my first 40. All the while, the "Thanator" (Palulukan) I was trying to dispatch would be overcome with laughter, at such a thought. Best to use my trusty ol "Barrett .50" at a distance of 1/4 mile in that case... lol! :P

Tey'Kan

Or you know it could just be an error? There was a reason the scene was deleted.

Also in universe justification for the weird ammo count: We know the RDA can't bring "heavy" munitions to Pandora so maybe they got stuck with gimped ammo as well. It makes a bit of sense anyway.

If you are using 30 round mags (common), but you are tight on rounds, it's easy to end up cutting 10 from each unit.

90 rounds for a day isn't bad, even on full auto that's a pretty good few minutes with regular (not high rate of fire) handheld weaponry.

The "Make them count", combined with the fact that they are conscribing miners; makes it pretty clear that resources are low and times are desperate. Coming up a little short in the last mag seems pretty reasonable.

- Mikko

90 rounds is around a second on full auto, I thought (well, longer, due to the need to reload).

It's perfectly reasonable that there is not enough to go around though, simply because they are using resources far greater than the actual number of marines there were supposed to be, and therefore overstretching their supply capacity.

With what weapon?

90 rounds / sec is pretty damn fast, for any weapon.

The standard AK47 in full auto shoots 10 rounds per second, with a theoretical maximum of 600 rounds a minute.

M16 can run up to 950 rounds / minute (almost 16 rounds/sec).

According to Wikipedia:
Of course if you are referring to the rate of fire of weapons on Pandora (which, after all, is the topic of conversation), then I don't remember the numbers if they've been published.

- Mikko

Fair enough, so around 7-8 seconds then - although unless you have some huge target, isn't the main function of using it that way just to get people to duck? I'm sure they were told to fire normally instead, if they were that short on supplies. The guns the marines had didn't look particularly rapid firing, probably just average, although the ones on the samsons were probably a lot faster.

Yeah. 90 shots is a pretty good number of shots, even in full-auto, let alone semi auto.

And full auto handheld is only really useful in short bursts. Otherwise you aren't aiming, and if you aren't aiming, why are you shooting?

In the film, even the fastest weapons make a series of shots sound. bang,bang,bang,bang or ba,ba,ba,ba at the fastest. High speed machine guns just make a buzzing sound.

- Mikko

No need to be afraid... When it comes down to an all out war between the Na'vi and the Sky People, the Navi have Tey'Kan on their side...;)

I don't own a Barrett 50, but I've shot them. Both the bolt action and the semi auto variants.... at watermelons! From about 800 yards.... at that range, there's nothing left.

The Vulcan Minigun 7.62 can peel off 35 - 40 rounds in a second, the larger 20mm Vulcan Rotary cannon, (mounted on the F-15) about 15 - 20. Now as far as the 30mm gun mounted on the A-10, not real sure there but at any rate, it's alot of hot lead comming out of those spinning barrels in a real big hurry... lol! :shock:

Tey'Kan