Do you guys realize how many times you've all mentioned the word "misunderstanding" in your replies? "No, you're misunderstanding."

Clearly we are all just seeing this problem from entirely different views, and with this thread now being 6 pages in and still discussing (debating?), IMHO, I do not think this will lead to anything other than pointless gibberish. If you guys can't agree now, after 6 pages... will you ever? Just my 2 cents.

(I am aware that this isn't adding anything to the "discussion", just wanted to get my voice heard.)

Yep. The problem happens when someone convinces themselves that the other "side" holds their viewpoint only because "they don't understand", not because they just see it a different way. There might be some misunderstanding, but for the most part it's just different interpretations and that's not going to change. In 6 pages or 10 or 50.

I certainly agree 100% Icu, but the discussion, debate, whatever won't end until a final decision has been made about this subforum thing. Actually, to this day no one has given me any sort of reason why it can't be "Ideology" instead.

The only helpful option in this scenario is to do nothing, because any sort of subforum just sweeps the problem under the rug. The issue is people being scared to voice their opinions, because they're under the impression they'll be attacked for it. That cannot be fixed by shuffling everything to its own section, as the Debate forum has already demonstrated.

So if spiritualist wants to discuss spiritualism, where should they go?

Anywhere! I would literally be fine with it being done anywhere, since most often, spirituality is discussed around other things anyway, such as dreams or impactful experiences. Talk about it anywhere, don't even hide it, see if I ever complain or ever EVER have.

I don't want to quote anybody. But I agree that it should be voted / polled & that tastes differ. Those who like music post on music, those who like cars, know where to go etc. But why people who want to talk about meditations etc. have to wander around ToS like gypsies & just see where they fit? Imho if there's a demand for such a forum- an opportunity must be given.

Me, I want the subforum. People who read "I dreamed about Pandora" thread would have seen a couple of my dreams & that's about 10% of things I would talk about on that forum. Spirituality covers many subjects, & things like meditations don't fit into be Ideology, Religion or something similar, so Spirituality is fine imho (it it happens at all).

I don't think I saw any opinion that attracted so many attacks in more or less rude terms as a non-scientific point of view. Imho it doesn't hurt anybody (as long as people of the subforum behave within the general forums rules) - so it should have its place to be expressed. Talking about attacks & trying "to bring people to their senses" - I would say it's like somebody trying to bring Avatar fans to their senses telling them that it was just a movie and they are plain silly to make such a big deal about it & trying to pull them out of their fantasy - haven't we all heard that? If somebody has a problem with the other not willing to see the world in a purely logical way (but rather going by intuition for example) - the problem is simply not being able accept a different opinion, I don't see any other problem. it's back to the old issue of respecting different opinions I am afraid.

And to balance it, first, there is already a Science & Technology forum - where I don't usually go. But if there really is a need for a Science only forum - I honestly don't mind, & I even if I decide to read something there I certainly won't go & try to educate the scientists & tell them they are wrong for a variety of reasons.

I have never attacked anyone. If it has happened in the past, we should let that be the past. I don't know why we need to create Spirituality as our legacy that we had problems. If the counter were also implimented, it would not be a Science subforum, it would be a Secular subforum, and the only reason we would need that would be if all opinions couldn't be tolerated in Spiritual. This is why if we are refused the Secular subforum, it would be ideological discrimination and hypocrisy.

Personally, I do not understand how this is not a moderation problem: people being hostile should be removed in the appropriate manner. The people being attacked do not need special protection for particular views.

well, why not seeing this as a part which can lead to interesting talks, at least if people agree to behave nice and friendly.

i seriously dont understand why everything often gets so much hate, if there is a different opinion it should be possible to speak about it NEUTRAL.

Its all a thing of the personal ego.

Nothing more or less.

Exactly.

Ideology encompasses a whole range of views.

Having a subforum because people don't feel they can make a thread about something anywhere else is a symptom of a problem - that problem is what needs to be resolved, and that needs everyone's cooperation.
I discussed that here: http://www.tree-of-souls.com/general...urn_roots.html

How about this: The enviromental subforum and the Technology Subforum.. There are people in the environmental thread that don't follow mining or GM crops and that is against technology. There is in a way already a split in the community. However, both these subforums contain the members who wish to speak about topics and normally they don't argue with other members. The way I see it it's actually preserving the peace..The spiritual/philosophy thread would be no different because there is already a scientific subforum..We'd just be implementing the other half.

Are you saying that Secularism doesn't deserve a subforum because we use logic all the time? Because that was one of my main reasons for why we didn't need a Spiritual subforum; many of us are affected by spirituality all the time. Spirituality also always applies to something else, dreams, meditation, impactful experiences, etc. You are being hypocritical.

**EDIT** Sorry Aquaplant, I totally missed your point. I didn't see your other posts and took this out of context.

Science/technology is a thing. It's for discussion of new discoveries.
It is not for looking at the world in general objectively.

This subforum would be the ONLY one where only a specific way of thinking is allowed.

Enough said.