I will say, I like the idea of going to pandora for heaven. And what I think of heaven doesn't exclude it from including pandora. (I hope it does, and I hope i'll see you guys there)

And Clarke, I just think that there is nothing I can achieve, because in the end it all ends up not mattering. It will all probably become hydrogen atoms moving farther and farther away from each other as entropy has more and more effect. Now that doesn't mean I don't work hard, don't care for people, and don't want a meaningful job. It just means that I think ultimately nothing done will end up mattering, it might for a bit, but not forever. So honestly, yes I do think that, and I see how it's strange, and most the time I wouldn't tell people because they'd think I'm an emotionless lazy bastard who doesn't give a damn about anything. But that's taking it the wrong way.

66/100? Cool! I daresay you arent' doing that bad :P & you made me laugh with a stick figure extraterrestrial: remember my ToS Meetup dream, about humans & extraterrestrials, that I posted on your Dreams (general)? This sticky figure seems one of them! :D

well this - an all-inclusive heaven - is something more like i understand it (like multi-dimensional, or multi-level heaven). Only imho of course - I am not imposing my views on anybody. I am in :)

someone i know indirectly had an NDE during a heart attack. She saw her life in retrospective & it turned out that the most important thing she had ever done was to give a glass of water to a stranger in a wheelchair. She actually didn't remember this occurrence in the RL & was quite surprised to see it from "out there". Not the studies, the work, the career, the bank account, the sports achievements... The most important thing happened to be a random spontaneous gesture of unconditional love.

So, talking about achievements, I guess it would be interesting to define "achievement". Individual definitions might vary.

And I though I had a depressing attitude towards life.

There is nothing wrong with pride as long as it's justified. As in it's okay to be proud if you can do something useful, for yourself or for other people. Also with or without pride, some people just are better than others, but they don't have to make a fuss about it, it's just a fact of life. Measuring the differences how some people are better than others is another thing though.

While we will die off at some point, the following generation will be left behind to deal with the consequences of our actions, and it sure matters to them and their children what we choose to do today. The problem with us humans is that we are extremely short sighted in everything we do and think, and it has lead to many unpleasant things up to this point.

Sorry for a short derail, but I mean don't get me wrong, I still wanna help the world and leave it a better place, I just can't really offer a better explanation than "just because" and "it feels right"

Sometimes going with instincts/feeling/intuition is all you have to explain something..It could be because some concepts like afterlife/heaven are hard to describe because no one has ever returned from the dead to tell us what the afterlife/heaven might be like. I suppose we all try to make an explanation of what happens after death..

Like Alan said somewhere (on Seattle 2011 Meetup thread iirc) "Some things don't have to be explained - they simply are"... I sign!

About returning back from the dead... oooh but wouldn't it be nice to have some samples!? :rolleyes: OK, some people come back from an NDE experience, & they said it was simply awesome out there... but all we get is a story. It's up to us believe it or not; everyone has the free choice. If say you knew this person before as a nervous, bitter, stressed-out, ever grumbling type - & after this sort of experience, the person is amazingly calm, almost serene, s/he stops worrying about trifles, but rather, tries to do everything in one's hand to make the world a better place knowing full well that not all the plans come true... Then we can say "we have a sample". Whatever happened during that experience, whether the person really had a glimpse of heaven, or it was an imagination, or a hallucination... What does it matter if the person changed for the best!

(In fact... I am remembering a particular doctor who had gone precisely thru this change. But I don't know him personally. If I did I would have taken "before" & "after" photos or videos :D)

All said, I still prefer to believe in heaven, & I daresay I almost know what mine is like :D

If an NDE changes someone from a cynical bastard to a to a calm one with a new appreciation for live and the world, I'd be much more inclined to believe it was due to the sudden trauma of almost dying :xD:

Exactly. It isn't due to magic, it's due to not wanting to waste their life :P

Of course that can be the case at times, but far from all the time. OBE's come from other things than near death experiences too, and has had the very same effect.

A different perspective on life - in these cases, a spiritual one - can truly make a difference for someone's happiness. :)

oh, that could well be! A question: how many cynical bastards change into calm persons with a new appreciation for life & the world after a situation they faced death? Do we have any statistics?

I know I faced it more than once, and... erm... well I don't know if it changed me that much*! :xD: Oh yeah it did - I give much less importance to some things that used to drive me mad. I just have to remember falling down from 1000m with 2 parachutes that opened at once due to some technical hickup & wondering if they would tangle & I was living my last seconds... they didn't tangle & the proof is that I am posting here. Altho... I don't really remember myself being a cynical bastard either! :xD: but I used to worry much more, this is true.

(*but some other things certainly have played their part in changing my world vision. LIke meditations & other spiritual things :P)

Added: I've thought it over, for the sake of statistics I almost died about 4 times, & I wouldn't say it changed me much as a person. But this parachuting thing was different: not exactly an NDE but yes it was a spiritual experience: in the sense that I was reading The Teachings of Don Juan that time, & he talks quite a lot about death. Briefly - the Death is always near & rather than ignore it, one will do much better keeping in mind that it can come any time - thus, one stops wasting one's life on stupidities & lives each day as if it were the last... a long etc. Then, if one respects Death, it can even become a friend & an advisor. In the worst hour of your life, ask: "Death, is it my time?" Most probably it will say: "Hmm... naaah! I haven't touched you yet. Go, play, rabbit". (Of course if it is your time... then the story is different):

So when I was dropping with the two open parachutes this sermon suddenly rushed into my head & I thought: "It's time to put Don Juan's teachings in practice... Death! Is it my time?" (fancy having this sort of thoughts in this sort of a situation?) Death said nothing, or maybe I didn't hear. I decided that since it didn't say "no", neither "yes" it was best to put the panic in the waiting drawer & concentrate on the "task in hand" - i.e. the safe landing.

So, yeah - I got a different perspective on life quite all right! :D Thank you Don Juan, I take my hat off, your Teachings do work for me! in theory & in practice :P .

It could be. And then, it could be something completely different. After all, I'm sure someone who spends their life to the fullest extent is still perfectly susceptible to such an enlightening experience.

Quite a few people have become spiritual after near death experiences or OOBE, I wouldn't be quick to rule out some kind of contact with a spiritual force being responsible for the change. Spiritual/magic or not wanting to waste life..Neither is more right than the other. It's all to do with what you believe in.

Suppose a person has a close encounter with death, and...

Option 1: nothing changes cos the person already believes him/herself perfect, wonderful & the best.
Option 2: nothing changes apart from the conclusion: "Life is a bitch, & so am I".
Option 3: the person reconsiders the way s/he has been living & some attitudes (like that doctor started to say "Hello, how are you?" to patients). Question: is it necessary to wait till Death gives one a flick on one's nose? Why not to start now?
Option 4: a spiritual experience is involved, say, one sees one's life in perspective, & how Choice A lead to Situation B, scratches one's head, has a good think AND decides to change some ways & attitudes.
Option 5: Other.

Bottomline, I agree with all who say that it can be this, or that, or something else. Spiritual, and/or lust for life, and/ or ... (fill the gap). The more nice people on this planet the better for all - & hopefully Without having to face Death in order to become a wee bit nicer! :D

"Let nobody be dead today - it will look very bad on my report!" I just can't help quoting Avatar:rolleyes::love:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

There are many more people who have not, but those far more common occurrences are clearly not publicised.##


Exactly - there are MANY possibilities. The one that hasn't been listed is this: "Person realises they hadn't done much of note, and decided they didn't want to waste their life" - that one is accountable for almost all.
Of course, there is always "Person suffers stress/mental issues as a result" as well, which can cause behavioural changes.

I am very glad to see that most of the people agree about many possibilities, & each can believe in one which is more to one's liking! :)

Since it is a Spiritual forum... I prefer to believe in spiritual possibilities :D