Why do you want to be a NA'Vi on Pandora?
 

There have been numerous threads about people here who feel they want to be NA'Vi. This is a huge topic with all the threads on "Would you give up your Earth life" and such. :awesome:

Now what I would like to know is - what is it that pulls you - us - into that thought. What is it that draws us into that feeling, that we would rather be NA'Vi, that we would rather be on Pandora, that our souls are NA'Vi or all the other similar feelings we share.

I think each of us has different feelings, I'd be interested to hear some. I imagine some want to be NA'Vi because of the NA'Vi culture, others want to be there because of the Ikran or the rainforest, others because it is spacetravel and others because of the bioluminescent plants and again others because of the physiology of the NA'Vi or because of the way they live and relate to each other.

Probably for most of us, all of these things are good reasons to invoke a desire to be a NA'Vi, but I'd like to know which ones are most important to you and if you will, drop a thought about if or how you think this part could become a reality for yourself here and now or within your lifetime and maybe what this motivates you to do.

This is not supposed to be a debate on which reasons are "better" or scientifically more probable but if you can, try to be realistic where applicable. But its ok to also go for dreams and mysticism. Just dont debate it - talk about what YOU think, what YOU want or desire, dont tell others what they should think or feel. Thank you :D

I think if I was to be a Na'vi, it would be because of the way they live and relate to each other - the sense of community they share. The flying, the bioluminescence...that's all great stuff, no doubt about it. But I think this more basic aspect of how they live together is what would be most important to me.

(But for the record if I could leave the Earth right now for Pandora, I don't think I could. There are things I want to get taken care of here first.)

I've never heard anyone give any reason other than the way they live and relate to each other, actually :P Those other reasons seem like more of an incentive to take a vacation there, and I love them, but I wouldn't give up my own life for them. Alternatively, I wouldn't want to be na'vi for several reasons. I feel I have a responsibility to Earth, and I would miss the technology too much :(

Everything is better than Earth. The Na'vi have capabilities that are beyond humanity, there are ikran, and there is the bioluminescence. Really though, it's also that I feel that there, I could find a lifemate...

I'm too much of having your cake and eating it person, so I'm not really partial to any choices where one must compromise something in order to get something else. As I dabbled with this subject long time ago, I came to the conclusion that the awe of new stuff would fade pretty fast, just like when we grow up and stop wondering all the things we take for granted as adults.

Then again nowhere is there anything that is meaningful by in itself, but there's just stuff all around, and the stuff we subjectively prefer the most is usually the best option to be in. Granted this isn't even an option for any of us, since we are just limited to being here, but imagination can make any option seem preferable to our current state, seeing as we were never asked what we would like, but just being dumped on this particular ball of dirt.

Avatar didn't make me want to be a na'vi, it made me want to go on a great adventure that i would find fulfilling in ever way.

If it were anything that made me want to be Na'vi, it was simply their way of life, and in the kind of place they were living.

The bioluminescence is cool indeed, extremely beautiful... But we have that on this planet, to a degree. I've seen it myself. And it's equally as magical.

Yes, like Aquaplant said, we're "confined" to living here, but honestly, i'm not bitter about that one tiny bit. Because for all those people out there who say Pandora is amazing - I agree. But so is this planet, in it's purest form. Also as IJ said, this planet... it's something you *can* live with, you can touch it, smell it, feel it. You breathe it in every day, but you can also have a *real* adventure, rather than an armchair one, you just need to be in the right place, and have the right will and sight to do so... Something that no amount of wishing can ever be said the same of for Pandora. (Sure, there may be a planet *like* Pandora out there, somewhere... But I hope you get the point i'm trying to get across.)

The Na'vi have something i'm struggling to find however - a life of such adventure, in said places... Perhaps in this place, such a thing must be searched for or made, instead of being a given.

I suppose I would want to be a Na'vi on Pandora so that I would be able to fully connect with the forest, the animals, with Eywa and with the culture of the Na'vi. It's a bit different when people try to experience Pandora as a human/avatar..It's not quite the same, like being in a bubble and you can't quite feel, taste and smell everything around you.
With that said if I had to give up living as a human on Earth to do it I wouldn't want to be a Na'vi on Pandora. I have so much more to learn here, and to experience.

Actually, just an Avatar driver.

Remember, Avatars are not Na'vi...save for certain circumstances.

Why?

I'm goddamn biology major, that's why. This moon is crawling with an entirely new phylogenetic tree, and an undisturbed ecosystem to boot.

Thanks for your answers so far. Very interesting :)
Remember, my question was not IF you would do it (that was covered elsewhere), but what it is that attracts you thinking about it. What is your attraction to it, and I think most of us feel. The question I try to ask is not so much about the NA'Vi or about Pandora or even about Avatar itself, but about ourselves and about what it is that Avatar, Pandora, the NA'Vi have invoked in us - what we found that we lack, want, desire and maybe to what all this has or will motivate us.

So for me personally it is like this:
The NA'Vi posess a very strong sense of community, a connection between each other and the world around them. They do not try to put themselves high about others - neither others of their clan, their tribe, their species, the other species. They listen to the forest instead of shouting into it. Their goal is to live a good and happy and exciting life and they succeed in doing so without the need for material wealth and actually see some of it as running contrary to that goal. Roads, schools, bluejeans, light beer - all this does not compare to what is lost in creating it and none of these brings more happiness than what vanishes in return. They have a relationship with the other beings on their world - plants, animals that is beautiful - some of it is made by a physical bond, but that is just part of it - they respect and love the Thanator or the animals they hunt even though they do not make a physical bond with it.
This sense of self, this understanding of oneself, others, the world and its connections is what attracts me most.
The next thing is the natural beauty of Pandora, but of course this comes and is linked to the first part. While Pandora certainly is exotic and thus holds many marvels, in my eyes Earth is very similar when it comes to its beauty. An Earth that is treated with the same attidute as the NA'Vi have towards life and their world that is. An Earth that has vast savannahs and large old growth trees and coral reefs and oak forests and buffalo and sturgeon and vast flocks of birds.
The other things - vibrant bioluminescence, NA'Vi physiology, Ikran, floating mountains are very cool and do touch my soul, but they are not what makes a constant impact on what I think.

And this is what for me came from all this - I think differently - I look for the NA'Vi ways on this world in our species. My imagination of "Pandora on Earth" does not hinge on flying mountains, but on the way people treat each other and the world, on the connectedness, cooperation and relationship. Yes, I do strive to fly a hangglider to get a little bit of Ikran here and I certainly dream of being reborn ina world with floating mountains and giant planets in the sky, but what would all of these things be worth if there is not that sense of being part of it - truely part of it...

Where do I begin? If I were to be a na'vi and live on Pandora, it would be because I feel at home. I relate to the na'vi in so many ways: The way they treat animals and the environment, The way their society is community-based, plus the beauty of the bioluminescense and their culture wich is so interesting and colorful. Plus the na'vi are hot.
I mean, when I saw avatar, I wanted to be Neytiri; not only because she's hot, which every girl would want to be,:rolleyes: but because I feel so much life her personality-wise. She is natural, beautiful, caring and playful. To me, she reflected everything I wanted to be. Plus I honestly don't feel at home where I am right now. Going to Pandora is my biggest dream, which btw, I'm gonna make darn sure I go to when it gets built in animal kingdom!;)

I would. But to me, this isn't the only reason. The first moment Avatar really resonated with me emotionally was when Jake woke up for the first time from using his Avatar and saw his legs. Now, I'm not a paraplegic and I never have been. But I've (all of the following were temporary) lost my ability to walk under my power, gone blind, and had my kidneys fail. I'm going to have to spend the rest of my life with arthritis and as soon as the current semester ends, I'm going to have to have a part of my tear ducts cut out (both of them). I've had numerous cases of pneumonia, I've had swine flu, etc, etc. I would very much like to have a happy active, HEALTHY life. And IMO, the Na'vi as portrayed were a personification of that.


There have been discussions on various forums asking [sarcastic voice]if you like the Na'vi so much, why don't you live like them?[/sarcastic voice]

If I was capable of that, I'd certainly consider it.

Eywa would be reason number one. Then tsahaluy (sp?) because that mental connection is better than anything on Earth. Then the companionship of other Na'vi. Then the ikran, I don't think I could get sick of that, especially because you connect with your ikran. Then the forest and the bio luminesence. I mean I don't even get bored of the forests here, I would leave for Pandora just for the bioluminesence and the forest.

For me, the number one reason would be the sense of community between Na'vi, and then tsahaylu (@Theorist: that's the spelling). And the bioluminescent forest, of course.

Kind of reminds me of what Clarke has said :rolleyes:

Wow :D You got me. I mean, I have heard these reasons before, but never in a way that you'd be a na'vi for each alone.

Not only is "tsaheylu" phonetically correct, but Frommer has confirmed that it is the correct spelling.

The way the Na'vi physically look is very appealing to me. I like tall people and I like cats, the na'vi are a nice blend of the two.

The fantastical impossible life-mate tsaheylu I find romantic, though I think I prefer serial monogamy as a human with the assumption that people can change and outgrow each other, mating for life is an awfully long time. With the na'vi however, a bond as strong as linking nervous systems I can only imagine it's being too overwhelming to ever do that with more than one sentient being, causing irrevocable emotional changes, and a closeness to which we have no equivalent. I'd be curious to know what that's like.

I'd also probably freak out with the first night I spent on Pandora, and spend hours stuck looking at tiny things like leaf venation, or the dots on my legs, or something.

I don't think I could give up my life right now for a Na'vi one, in a few years when the world's a little worse, I'd definitely reconsider it.

Oh for sure, I guess that's something I forgot to mention as well ;)
If Earth goes to ****, of course I'll be a na'vi. I just have some optimism about us coming out of this situation somehow. Not without horrible catastrophes and changes, but it's true, I'd rather live without technology on Pandora than without it on Earth.

You're right; sorry for the typo. Using ay implies the wrong diphthong; the correct one to use is ey.

What's interesting is that it's not impossible. It would just require a really, really powerful computer like this one, a connection method like Dr. Keichii Torimitsu's, correct software built on the NEURON programming, and two willing participants. Maybe in 20 years researchers will have rigged up a system that can do it. After all, it can already happen in nature with some bacteria.

I can understand that. Though I could get into a Na'vi life right now and have no qualms about it :) No reason why I couldn't pursue a career in medicine still; I'm sure the basic medical anatomy of Na'vi is similar to humans, minus a few variances.

I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I think the human race will eventually run itself into the ground, and soon. Average people are greedy and care little for the environment; sooner or later, humans will die off and the Earth will regenerate as if they were never here, reversing all of the damage done.

Nice links :awesome: , especially about the connection method. I honestly didn't know that much progress had been achieved :)

Most people don't; it's not exactly well-publicized. That kind of thing tends to freak out average people. I'm just glad the research is happening despite public views; maybe we'll get somewhere in a few years :)

Exactly - if I COULD be 3m tall, with blue skin, beautiful eyes and a tail. I would. If I could, as an average individual, be physically superior to the greatest human who lived, I would. If I could have a lifemate and make tsaheylu and experience everything together, I would. If it was possible to bond with an ikran and ride it through the air, I would. If I could spend every night wandering through bioluminescence, with everything around having its own beauty, I would. None of that's at all remotely possible.

For me, the idea of a lifemate is better because it's being able to truly know someone on a way that most people never will, and I would far prefer that to ending up losing am ate over and over again... I think that most people would, in a perfect situation, want a mate to stay with them, and it certainly is possible with humans, just not easy and doesn't work for everyone, while the Na'vi have it much easier there...

Definitely :)

Honestly, ideally, I'd like the best of both lives. I'd like to be able to be a Na'vi physically, live somewhere really nice, be able to fly, but also still be able to occasionally enjoy things from Earth.

You're almost completely right. Increasing height to 3 meters would destroy the spinal column and cause paralysis. Blue skin, however, would be possible with tattooing or permanent ink, and maybe in the not-too-distant future, gene therapy. A tail would also be possible if it could be artificially grown and grafted on, but the technology for that is not yet available; maybe in a decade that will change. Tsaheylu would be extremely difficult to achieve, but it might be possible with lots of technology (see my post here). Riding an ikran is definitely not possible. Bioluminescence, however, might be achieved with gene therapy, since some species of fish already have that.

I second that; all I'd need from Earth is a generator, an iPad, a laptop, and a satellite connection. There would be no need to do away with technology; it would just have to be used sparingly.

Actually they did gene modified plants that glow in the dark by putting marine organisms genes into them. But of course these have to stay in the enclosed labs because no one knows what will be the result if they go into the wild...

So all you need is "the internet" basically?

:awesome::xD: - yeah I can imagine that. That image is very funny but so true. Look at all the dots indeed... :D

Carbon-fibre bones! Carbon-fibre bones! :awesome: (I've given JC crap for not justifying himself elsewhere, but that sort of thing is what I hoped there was more of: just enough explanation so we can hear, "I know this doesn't work, but it's a film. You should really just relax.")

Though if you're talking about turning a human into a Na'vi, can't you just use surgery whatevers?

For a species that has a IO cable dangling out the back of their skull, an iPad seems like an awfully crude HCI. (or should that be Na'vi-Computer interface? :party:) Wouldn't strategically-placed wireless transceivers work better? :awesome:

If it were just about becoming a na'vi physically and I didn't have to give up access to all the knowledge humans have, technological advances, etc, YES, I would be a na'vi :P I guess that question has never been posed to me, and before now, I've never even thought about it with those circumstances, but there are several situations in which I'd gladly be a na'vi.

Yep, and maybe a toothbrush.

Yes, you can. Plastic surgery coupled with permanent ink (or genetic engineering for a version of melanin that's blue) would yield something almost exactly like a Na'vi, minus the increase in height and the tail. The former couldn't be practically achieved with surgery, and the latter would require growth in a lab and grafting on once developed. Maybe they can use tissue printers for that :)

That's true, but it also assumes that the brain could adapt to control a device that is Internet-capable and designed for a 2d environment. I'm not sure if that would be possible - research would need to be done to find out.

Exactly :D
It's about gaining special, unique things, abilities no human has, and still knowing everything I did :)

I already have some of the ink part done :D
I will honestly be getting a tail when it becomes possible too.

About right for me.

If you did away with conventional web pages, and used things like Twitter, you could directly interpret 1D streams of data, which would probably be a lot easier.

I guess it would be kind of wonky to be a na'vi on Earth with nothing else different :( But ideally, the way I'd prefer it would be if I could be a human sized avatar (I like all my fingers KTHX). And of course I'd be thrilled if everyone here had this choice, and then there'd be some real na'vi at the meetup :awesome: (had a dream recently like this).

And it looks awesome :)

Me too, and the rest of the modifications to become as close to Na'vi as I can get. How long do you think it will be before that's possible? I'm betting on less than two decades.

How would you view scientific articles and know whether information was accurate and peer-reviewed, then? There would have to be some serious web infrastructure changes to make that work, but I suppose it could be done.

Which would be awesome on so many different levels :)

You don't even KNOW :D In the dream, everyone kept asking what our costumes were made of, and I couldn't stop laughing :xD:

I would definitely get a tail if it were functional. If it actually had a significant affect on my balance and coordination, I would probably get a tail

Which it would. I personally don't understand why humans evolved to not have tails. Tails are exceptionally useful for balance and coordination. Then again, there would have to be custom chairs, cars, etc. complete with holes for tails; I imagine sitting on it would be uncomfortable, akin to getting pins and needles in your foot :P

I think a tail would look silly on humans more than anything else.

Some people have really good balance and coordination regardless, but the same could not be said about myself, for I'm beyond redemption in that regard, tail or not.

Though I agree, that's a perception that arose from social conditioning; it is not objective. Anyway, I'm sure if technology was available to give people tails, it would also be possible to get plastic surgery to go for the complete Na'vi image.

That might be true, but remember, having a tail would allow you to quickly catch yourself and prevent you from falling even if you still had poor balance.

What conditioning? Some people did clip off tails from their dogs back in the day, so I think the fashion aspect of it is questionable at best.

Also, considering that humans are not much to look at in the first place, so the amount of change attainable via something crude as surgery would be minimal at best.

Not if that tail would be as much fail as my body currently is.

All I meant is beauty is relative and subjective to what is taught to us at a young age. Why do you think society finds skinny blondes attractive? Because they're always been thrown at us on the covers of magazines, and the industry is telling us that that is beauty - and we believe them.

I very much disagree. Surgery isn't crude, or else this would not look as good as it does, nor would delicate procedures like this aneurysm clipping be possible. The Na'vi nose could definitely be constructed. The only difficulty would really be the ears, which could not be moved up. They could, however, be modified substantially.

Well, I'm hoping biotechnology marches on substantially in my lifetime. (almost) Anything is possible with SCIENCE. :awesome:

beauty=preference=subjective

The rest is just nonsense, like someone is going to tell me that I'm insane because the marketing industry is telling me to be one. Sure, some people are easily manipulated, and once you get few key players into position, you can make fashion whatever you wish, but the topic of vanity holds little interest to me.

Make up your mind will you? First you say that beauty is subjective, and then you show me pictures of a "good" nose job? Seriously though, it is hard to improve upon that which is already full of fail, and I consider us humans quite fail on the looks department.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/science.jpg

You're absolutely right, I should have rephrased that. I did not mean to imply that it looked good, I just meant that the surgeon did a good job on what he or she wanted to accomplish.

I'm curious, then. Since the Na'vi share a lot of basic characteristics with humans (i.e. placement and sizing of features, as well as head shape), how do you find their looks?