How would I not be able to apply it to anything? What about applying it to a new world around me? IMO having all that taken away would be like hitting a reset button on hundreds of years of human progress from my perspective. I can only imagine feeling very depressed about it.

"Convenient" perhaps, but also utterly stupid. Like it's "convenient" to shoot rabbits with a bazooka, but it doesn't make much sense though.

Makes for a good fertilizer, and of course the excess needs to be disposed in some manner, like buried in the ground for example. But as I'm not an engineer, I can't go through all the possible options how else it could be done, but suffice to say we took the easy way out with flush toilets.

It's not just about using the water, but as you also so helpfully pointed out, we contaminate said water by using it to flush toilets and then we have to clean it again. How does that make any sense?

It appears you do not quite know who you are talking to, because I for one am possibly the most dependant when it comes to creature comforts and the like, but I also know to differentiate between the ones that are more wasteful than they are useful. I prefer safety, but I also prefer to have my environment in working condition that it doesn't go and die on me, because that's when you loose all safety, like when you loose clean water for example.

Because we want to get rid of the biochemical hazard as quickly as possible? It's essentially a generator of disease, after all.

Isn't almost everything a generator for disease, that is everything that can be used as a nutrition and a habitat for bacteria and alike?

The irony to talk about this subject while being ill, but that's winter for you.

Up to 30% of the mass of faeces is bacteria. Animals such as cows have an entirely different digestive process. There are dozens of diseases that are primarily or solely transmitted through the associated contamination of soil, food or water. It is possible to handle it without processing, but this is NOT viable for large populations, or even a small town.

Humans are overpopulating themselves right out of existence. The problem IS, that they will drag most of the rest of the flora and fauna right down the drain WITH them.
Niri Te

You underestimate life's resilience. Even in the worst-case scenario short of actual planetary destruction or the removal of all biological material, life will persist even if conditions (and by necessity, species) change. The state of life has never been held in a constant state, and artificial human attempts to do so can still change the status of others even if successful.

birth control: the best European commercial

You win one and a half internets there.

It's funny how the simplest and easiest of solutions is the best and most effective. Too bad humanity has so many hang-ups about sexuality in general, so we are too scared to properly educate people about the importance of birth control.

Sometimes I can't believe our naivety when we think that sweeping issues under the rug will somehow make them disappear.

Geez - this topic has strayed far.
Remember, the question was not why you dont want to be on Pandora, what would be the trouble of living as a human on Pandora or If you would like to be on Pandora s a Human, Avatar driver or whatever. There were topics on that before. The question is specifically for those who already say "yes" to the idea that being a NA'Vi on Pandora would be desireable and then specifically why that is. What I want to get into is what are the desires, wishes, dreams and longings that each of us has, that makes this attraction to the NA'Vi. What makes us wish, we'd be in the situation of Jake in the end of Avatar, when he opens a set of yellow eyes to the dramatic last drums of the Avatar Theme music.

Nevertheless I'll also adress some of the issues raised:
The desire to keep modern advances is a biggie it seems, one that would prevent many from actually desiring to be a NA'Vi on Pandora. Antibiotics and Physicians - well I guess the NA'Vi do have medical plants (much of our medicine comes from plants and animals originally) and healers, but probably no hospitals.
Air conditioning and concrete sidewalks are just silly arguments. I never use air conditioning and I prefer grass or "mud" over concrete anytime. Hot showers are probably not exactly a desire I would have on Pandora either - Whenever I was in warm climates, I usually prefer room temperature showers or cold showers. To jump into a small pond at a waterfall in Thailands rainforest certainly does not take a lot of courage in terms of temperature :D

Flush toilets are indeed pretty stupid. They are good solutions for cities. The NA'Vi dont have cities. For any other setting, a variety of options exist. Also to treat the excretions as toxic waste is nonsense. They have to be treated well and people should not be toxic themselves (because of pharmaceuticals, lead or whatever) and then this can be what is called "Humanure" (look in the internet at the "Humanure Handbook" to read more on how to actually turn your "waste" into fertility. Of course you should not poop into the river or pond that you drink from.

And there are various ways to replace toilet paper. The one I use presently is simply water and soap, but I guess a number of other options work as well. Keep in mind that only a small fraction of the wold population for only a small fraction of the time used toilet paper. Namely westernized countries over the last maybe 150 years. Go to Asia or Africa and in many places you will not find toilet paper regularly.
But if having no toilet paper and air conditioning and freaking concrete sidewalks keeps someone from liking being a NA'Vi on Pandora, then actually all I can do is pity that someone :P

I doubt that. Pandora is a very dangerous place and it is not really easy there. It is easy for the NA'Vi maybe because they know how to behave and do things in a way that is not stupid. Same is true for indigenous Earth people. I doubt I would survive two days in the Tanzanian bush, yet the Hadza people there do not seem to be worried and instead bum around half the day.

Sigh

To TRY to put this thread back on topic
 

OK, I hunt and fish. what I hunt and fish for, I eat, I did NOT claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables. I use the hide and bone of what I kill, to do anything less, is to not honor the animal. I did not learn this from watching a movie, I grew up learning this, I am half Cherokee.
The only problem comes in, when you understand that I intimately know what the Eagle knows, I have been flying for 48 of my 61 years, and I am NOT willing to give that up. IF, I were allowed to bond with my own Ikran, then I would have NO PROBLEM living what to me is an Idyllic lifestyle, and NOT be called a "throwback" or "savage" for living the way that I do now.
Unfortunately, I will never reach Pandora, so I will just have to be a "Savage", living in chosen isolation, in the most rural area in the State of Texas.
Niri Te

It's still 1/4 - 1/3 bacteria by weight no matter what you eat. There are still entire categories of disease that are transmitted solely by faecal contamination of soil and/or water. There is no lead in it; for there to be then the person would have died of lead poisoning. Even more intelligent animals are careful to avoid contaminating living/feeding areas. As Clarke said, it IS a generator of disease, which is what modern treatment methods are specifically designed to mitigate. Yes, it's possible to do on a small scale, with biological processes to break it down, but this does not work for any larger density of people.

I can't pity anyone, because it is comfortable, and that is what makes life enjoyable for most people, but the main problem would be contact with other people, personally.

They also have better physical capabilities than humans, and the environment is not in any case directly comparable.

you're right, Aurora, this thread deviated quite a bit from the OP - sorry I have contributed to it (but that video is just too good :xD:)

Back to the OP: why would I, being the person, whoever & whatever I am, want to be a Na'vi on Pandora?

"Jake, it's real simple": the flow of energy. The Na'vi know it; they perceive it, live it & breathe it; for them, it goes without saying, "this, too, is a fact".
The deep connection people have with the forest considering animals their brothers & sisters
- & honouring them even if they need their body for survival.
"It's a network! - and the Na'vi can access it, unload & download data, memories...";
"you can feel what the other feels... inside",
all energy is borrowed & one day we'll have to give it back;
the ancestors live within Eywa,
the Great Mother always listens & sometimes even answers - but doesn't take sides, she only maintains the balance of things...

That's my thing. I want to be one of them; we'll certainly understand each other. No questions asked.

Oh, and I also want to be 3m tall, blue, with a tsaheylu braid (tswin?). & a tail would be a great addition to express emotions :awesome:

Don't forget the ears! :D

No, seriously, I totally agree.

The Na'vi haven't lost connection to nature, their "All Mother", to each other, just the world which surrounds them. They're literally and directly connected to it.
They "see", we Humans don't do that (anymore). We have lost our own kind of connection to our "All Mother", our planet. We're abusing and destroying her because we're greedy and don't "listen to what she tells us" in her very own kind of "language". The Na'vi do. They are greatful for everything which her All Mother gives to them and especially for everything they take from her. They live in total harmony with the nature they're part of ("Meoauniaea", wonderful word) and also with each other. They treat each other with respect. They don't destroy each other because of their greed or jealousy or hatred or whatever like we Humans did and do.
(I know that not all human beings are this way, but unfortunately most of our kind are.)

I'm aware of the fact, that Na'vi also use(d) to have Clan wars and such (-> Pandorapedia). But I can't imagine that they fight each other during such wars because of the "enemy" "is sitting on sh!t that you want" or because they think that the "enemy clan" is "not worth living". And so on...
I also know/think that the Na'vi are also vunerable to injuries, diseases and death. But well, that is the circle of life. And the Na'vi respect and follow it.

Also, Pandora is just breathtakingly beautiful. I would wanna live inside it as a Na'vi because of that and everything else mentioned.

But... unfortunately, Pandora isn't real. So I still have to deal with my "Weltschmerz" and the fact that I'm human and not much better than everybody else who uses electric current, plastic wrappings and so on... Sweet misanthropia.

aw yeah! :D

I've logged in now again in order to add just that ^^^^ Purple-pink-blue glowing jungle, rivers, waterfalls... seas... :awesome:

aw, I prefer to believe that it is! :D maybe in a parallel universe, "a separate reality" - or, really somewhere in the cosmos that many light years away... Whether it exists physically or just in our minds - it's an inspiration, a hope, & if one believes in something - it sort of becomes real. "I thought the Matrix wasn't real?" - "Your mind makes it real". I don't really know where I am going with this one... well, just that: I believe in Pandora, or a Pandora-like world = it is real (for me).

*sigh* what can one do? just to live the best way one can, under the circumstances of each one, as if one were living the last day - live it to the maximum, to the full. That way of living, again, can seem yet another dream :shy: I know I try, & I fail many times to live this way, but it's worth a try. Like trying to ride that direhorse, falling in the mud, & climbing back :P

The location of, and state of Pandora
 

While "Pandora" and the "Na'vi" are the creation of J.C.'s mind, that does not mean that they do not exist at some level, somewhere in the universe. They DON'T need to be in the Appha Centauri system, and they don't need to be blue with tails, that setting, and those people were used by him as a way to tell a Parable, so to speak. They were a way to awake people on this planet from their slumber, and in a beautifully poetic way, show them that we can turn this planet, and our Species around, and not GO to Pandora, but CREATE it right here.
There are places on this planet, where it looks just like Pandora, I know, I have lived there, they are few, and getting scarcer, but they EXIST, and we can bring them back.
In order to be able to start to turn this planet around, we as a species need to FIRST become more LIKE the Na'vi. Not the color of our skin, but our attitudes, and way of life.
This is not some unobtainable state of being, they have their faults too, just look at, according to some of the publications, their acceptance of extra-marital sexual relations, they are NOT perfect "Angelic Beings" , but are realistic, attainable role models, though the creation of their loose sexual attitudes takes their "Nobility" down a notch or two in my eyes. This may be a GOOD thing though, as it makes them more attainable in many people's eyes.
We can turn this around, once we, as a species realize that even though the Earth is MUCH bigger, and more complex than we, as individuals are, we CAN do it grave damage, by our actions.
We CAN, by our attitudes and actions CREATE Pandora in our lives RIGHT NOW. All that we must do, is be willing to do so.
I used to live under a Tribal system, on an Island in the South Pacific that could have been USED for the location for the jungle shots in the movie, and that is a part of my life that I could never give up the memories of, but Tee and I have CREATED the energy of Pandora right here in the middle of the Far West Texas Prairie, without a tree in sight, by our loving attitude toward each other, and our lifestyle of being totally dedicated to a life of drawing what we need to survive from renewable sources. This includes the construction of our house, the energy that we capture from the Sun, and wind, and our attempts at burning, or being the cause of burning as little fossil fuels as possible.
We may not be able to "GO" to Pandora, but we can CREATE it right here, right now. All we have to do is be willing to adapt, and to wake up our tsmuk on this planet, showing them that THEY can make a change too.
Niri Te

What you say is so true, taylor, no doubt, but I guess our civilisation is too far developed (especially concerning level of technology, industrialization, and as a consequence of this, greed) to become any like the Na'vi. I think that once human kind was somehow like the Na'vi, before technology and other inventions started to cut off our connection to our nature more and more.
Sure we can try to treat our Mother Earth more like she deserves to be treated, but I don't think that human kind (= majority of it) will ever give up to exploit her in order to keep up our development and standard of living.
Human kind is the cancer of our great and beautiful Mother... at least that's how I see it.

An understanding of Science, and the possession of Technology does not have be the death knell of this planet. If it were not for the false color images of our upper atmosphere taken by satellites, we would not have the compelling evidence of the damage to it. It is technology that gave us the Solar Panels and wind generators that are allowing me to type this to you using energy from the Sun to run this computer, the technology of which is being used for the planet's good.
I realize that my location allows me to use these things to lower my footprint a lot easier here than you can in Germany, I used to live in Oberbayern for 14 years, so I know the problem with landlords, etcetera, BUT Angela Merkel saying that she wants Germany to be 80 percent on renewable energy by 2050, is a VERY good thing, (GOD,I love the CDU, and their attitudes).
Niri Te

Well... what Mrs. Merkel says and what's done/executed then... are "two different pair of shoes" :P
But yeah, you're right regarding living this kind of way here in Germany. That's why I don't wanna grow old here.

But I guess that's not the topic here. ^^

Well said :), although I seriously doubt Germany will reach 80% renewables unless they reclassify energy purchased from other countries as renewable, or put tax up to a flat 95% :P

I could live either way if one was Pandora, but I think that going from one to the other wouldn't work, because I'd lose too much and know its loss.
I would really love to be able to gain a Na'vi body on Earth, though :D

That is VERY TRUE, but I would like to know more about her, so if you could PM, or E-mail me, I would LOVE to hear about it from your perspective. Let's just take the conversation to a private venue.
Niri Te

I guess I can't help you with that... because I don't care that much for (german) politics.
:embarrassed: ^^

that's a very beautiful thing to say :)

IRAYO, ma oeya tsmuke. Later today, tomorrow morning your time, I will PM you some of what the Eagle, and his younger brother the Red Tailed Hawk have taught me about flying, and about living. The Red Tailed Hawk is my personal Tirealoang.
Niri Te

I want to be a Navi on Pandora purely for idealistic reasons. I have become so well acquainted with solitude that I wonder if I could live communally. I enjoy our cook outs and barbecues with our neighbors, but I am grateful for doors! I just want to be blue and live a primitive lifestyle. I wish I wasn't so dependant on automobiles for our monthly shopping excursions!

The na'vi are anything but isolated, so solitude seems like a strange reason to me.

I think what Ateyo means is separation from the "throw away, polluting, energy wasting, third world abusing" folks that make up a large part of American Society Today. Not of us that live out here in the toolies are like that, and we are all so exclusionary of outsiders, yet comfortable with each other, that we might be classified by a Na'vi as an " 'Olo".
Niri Te

I think I understand. The appeal is a smaller community.

Moco Loco, I guess you're also right about the Na'vi Not seeming isolated - we didn't really see any of them all alone in the movie - apart from a few occasions (like, Neytiri was alone when she was about to shoot Jake - & she would if it were not for the Atokirina sign. If she did shoot him, the movie would have been Very short! :xD:)

But I was thinking: if I know anything, there are "times of solitude" in native cultures. Like, one is supposed to go away into the wilderness to find one's own... song. Or name. Or something. (whatever 'wilderness' is in one's region: mountains, forest, prairie... a desert...). There were also story-tellers who would travel between the clans & bring them news & stories - they would spend some time on their own while travelling. Personally, i like to be alone in the forest, with the waterfall that we have here - or in a valley, nobody but birds, sun, plants, butterflies & wind around... Good company! :D

Solitude, the space or ability to just be alone with yourself, is something I think we all crave or desire at some points in our life. With solitude, particulairly when out in the country and with Nature, comes a quiet stillness, freedom from the stress and hectiness and expectations that we are bombarded with daily. It doesn't mean that we don't usually enjoy the company of others, or the need to be part of and involved or connected to community, rather its just we all need a break. I'm fortunate right now that i have been blessed with an extended opportunity to be experiencing both a community of a small town whose natural state of being is laid back and slower paced, plus lots of time to walk and commune with nature.

For me that same longing, for that in my dreams on Pandora, has embued me to find and create that here. I feel I am and always was already Na'vi my whole life, I just didn't know till now how to live it for 'real'.

^^^i guess so... right now I tend to like plants more than people :xD: with a Very few exceptions. Maybe I should go to a forest & "recharge" myself. It would be nice to have a queue! :)