Sopa/pipa
 

You may see ToS has joined in the protest, along with wikipedia, google, reddit, and THOUSANDS of other websites.

If you haven't heard of these two proposed laws yet, you should.

Stop American Censorship — a campaign from Fight for the Future
http://americancensorship.org/infographic.png
Watch this video: http://vimeo.com/31100268

This will impose chinese-style internet filtering. They are supported by the movie and film, industries, because they will effectively ban user generated content and information sharing. This is all about control.

The repercussions will not just affect the US either. This sets a precedent for arbitrary, at-will censorship, and enables both security and connectivity problems that will affect internet users across the world.

If these pass, ToS will be essentially banned, along with Facebook, Youtube, Google, Wikipedia, deviantArt and every chan, forum, social network, and blog. The internet will become TV - locked down, centrally controlled by authority, and passive, with no participation, nothing that makes the internet what is is. This seeks to control the internet, to force websites into responsibility for the actions of others, and to suppress dissent and free speech. The dangers of this, both in itself and in the precedent it sets, can not be overstated

If you are in the US, tell your representative to oppose it. Write, phone, email. DO ALL THREE.

Everyone else, there is less we can do, unfortunately, but we can still raise awareness - what the people who CAN fight this directly need right now is allies, is help. We are the ones to give it to them. Make sure there is not a single person in the world who does not understand the consequences of this.

The internet is going to war, but make no mistake, this is a fight for survival, for everything we hold close to us. Show them what we can do. Stories will be told of this day for generations to come, as the day the internet stood up for what it believed in.

Well, I took that link of yours, and posted it on a Facebook page I know of with 150'000 on it. Here's to the internet.

"So what can I do?"

If you're in the US, fight it directly.
There is a pre-written message you can send at PROTECT IP Act Breaks the Internet and Stop American Censorship — a campaign from Fight for the Future . In addition, if you at all can, PHONE them, and even send letters by post (the impact of opposing letters being delivered in massive piles has more effect on a politician than you might think, while email is easier to ignore).

In addition, and also for the rest of us: AWARENESS. Today is a historic day, and while the effort that a user here makes pales in comparison to Google, Wikipedia, and others, remember that it is the millions who try that are the real power behind any effort to stop this - we can't do it alone. Such small efforts are magnified to an amazing degree. The internet does it often, and old establishments fear that - that is what SOPA is all about; control. Don't give them the opportunity :war:

Those crusty old sh1ts aren't touching my internet.


Old men have no right to lead if they can't accept the future.

^Amen. This is fascism/police statery at its worst. It's not often so many people actually fight back against misdeeds by the ruling class (in both business and government, and these bills are proof of the horrid relationship between both).

Now if only we could do this more often...

ToS isn't going dark for a day, is it?

In either case, right f---in' on, man.

...see the main page :P

Shows how smart I am, eh? :facepalm: :rolleyes:


Oh, and also:

The Author of SOPA Is a Copyright Violator

SOPA Backers Are Pirates Themselves

^Just something I think is interesting to consider.

As bad as SOPA may be... lots of people clearly have no idea what it actually says.

Very few people know what any of the laws are and that includes the legislators that pass them.

I contacted my three federal legislators when this first came on the scene last year. Since I live in California they are pretty much bought and paid for by the interests behind SOPA/PIPA so I was not expecting much. Sadly there are not very many here in the US that actually take the time to let their representatives know what they want them to do.

I really hope that the next 20 odd hours left help to get a few million people to get off there arse and do something. Now usually they don't listen, but if there are thousands of calls, emails, and hopefully a few actual letters they will get the message.

Keep up the good work.

When I first heard about that I thought "WTH, now the USA totally cracked up". This is just so wrong in every way and also criminal imho.

I support anyone who fights this sh!t, which I tried to do both online and in "real life". I can only hope that it'll help.

What is it they think they are hiding,
what is it they they think they can hide from,
they are running scared,
their fear has them right where we want them,
an old world tactic,
to limit the flow of communication,
they fuel, give energy, rise,
to the rebellion,
they do the work for us,
while they cower in their bunkers,
we have other ways,
non discernable,
networks far more reaching then this,
they may think this subtle emp burst,
so to speak,
can stop the technology,
what they don't see,

is its not by this we communicate,
illusively,
Pandora's trees have more connections than the human brain,
Eywa is real, Eywa is listening,
and we can hear, see, and feel,
2012

^^^

I'm not in favor of SOPA either, but the hysterics people are going into are really excessive, and just discredit the opposition. Yes, SOPA is the wrong way to go about it, and I don't support it... but piracy is a real problem. And every day that people claim pirating is somehow their right is another day closer to this type of control. Find a real solution, and stop acting like stealing is your right - or you'll find this type of control WILL happen, some day, and it will be the fault of those who can't help but steal everything in sight.

HE LIVES! ;)

couldn't resist!
:P

That cheeky aside what I really came on here to say next, albeit what you point out gives pause to consider, as valid, but where My thoughts were going was seeing these bills as similar to the RDA bulldozing 'sites' like the Tree of Voices, and all that that symbolism represents, including to think about all the 'resultants' after.

Numbers are numbers are numbers. Since when did people own numbers?

Oh, right, since we wrote laws saying so. Just because the law says something is a crime does not automatically make it immoral, and just because something is a law does not mean it can effectively be enforced. Piracy is definitely not the latter, and I would say not the former, since selling "copies" of the work is hardly the only way for the artists to be compensated.

In other words, you don't have a different solution, so you're just going to make a rambling philosophical point instead. Guess what, that's not going to fix anything. On the other hand, the whole "people can't own numbers" thing is just dumb, and again totally avoiding the issue.

Why must a solution be presented? It could simply be that producing art for profit is simply no longer viable. It certainly doesn't seem to be sound with the model based on selling physical copies.

Yet banning an entire website because someone posted a video of themselves dancing to a song is not a solution, particularly since with all the censorship it allows, I can think of tens of workarounds for off the top of my head.
This isn't about 'piracy', it's about media control - these consortia control all TV, almost all film, and the internet is somewhere they have no influence (and often prove themselves completely lacking understanding). They want that to change, so the internet is locked down and consumer only without any semblance of user input, like TV. That in itself shows how little they understand it, and why they are part of an old model which is no longer relevant. Clinging to archaic methods, strategies and models will get a company left behind, and they could have been as important as google, but they didn't wan to sacrifice charging people £15 for 10 mass-produced songs before they even had a chance to hear them.
PS. Good to see you post :)

No, this is most definitely about piracy, and the fact that people seem to think these days that they have the right to steal the work of others. This is not some sinister plot by people in some back room to control the internet. That type of paranoia serves no purpose. In fact, that sort of thinking (and worse, talking about it) only makes MORE people support things like SOPA, because it sounds like delusion.

Our Congress sucks and is inefficient, yes. But they are still people, and they are not there to shut down the internet and/or control it. Again, that sort of "the world is ending stuff" actually HELPS the people supporting SOPA, because it makes the opposition look, well, silly, to be honest. Thats why I say, you need to produce real solutions, to a real problem, and not ignore it or claim it doesn't exist.

There are also different degrees of violation. Of course an entire website shouldn't be banned because someone posted a video of them dancing to a song. But let's take one of the holy grails of the pirates, TPB. That site has NO purpose other than to violate copyright law, absolutely none. I've used it in the past, yes. But I would have absolutely no problem with TPB being delisted from the search engines, for example. It is 100% for illegal activity. Yeah, there's lots of gray areas in between. But a site like TPB, or many others like it, are obviously about copyright violation (they flaunt it, in fact).

Sites like TPB are the reason this problem even exists in the first place. If people remembered what honesty and integrity was, things like SOPA would never even be thought of, let alone get to the voting stage. If and when it happens, it will be the fault of the criminals that steal, period.

Oh yeah, and the very script running on the ToS homepage right now is exactly what contributes to the silly hysteria. Yes, SOPA will make all webpages look like black screens. That's exactly what it means. That stuff is WAY over the top.

If the problem you are talking about is piracy, there are none. "Piracy" is fundamentally un-blockable, because it is fundamentally identical to the purpose of networking: exchanging numbers. The fact that we attach value to numbers in differing contexts is completely irrelevant to the computer, who will quite happily serve you the contents of anything at all; all it sees are meaningless numbers.
That is what SOPA allows.

And another post, that says absolutely nothing. It's very convenient to call other people's hard work "numbers", I know. But no one is stupid enough to think its ok to steal it, just because the actual medium is numbers transmitted via computer. At least, I hope no one is that stupid.

I knew it was pointless to even try to talk about this here. Its still sad to be proven right though. People thinking like this is exactly why SOPA, or something like it, WILL happen, eventually. Enjoy the censored internet when it comes, and know that it is YOUR fault.

Anything that is represented as digital information can be represented as a number - indeed, a completely arbitrary number based on different encoding schemes and bases.

The internet can never be completely censored, because there will always be workarounds, and those with the knowledge and skill to disseminate those to others. The harder people work to suppress something, the more available it becomes. in addition, SOPA/PIPA work to suppress on a higher level, by making any business or project a higher risk, preventing new ideas before they get off the ground.

Yes, I am well aware of how digital information is encoded and transmitted. My point is that the medium does not make it OK to steal it. Is a great painting just the paper and paint then? Would it be ok to steal that? Or to only pay the artist the cost of the paint and paper? The whole "its just numbers" argument is just an excuse, and one of the weakest ones I've ever heard. You know what makes me really, really angry? The fact that my internet experience may be limited, in even a small way, because of criminals. That's the reality. If people weren't stealing, on a MASSIVE scale, this would never come up.

This bill has NOTHING to do with censorship. Not even a little bit. It is about stopping theft, period. It's a terrible way to go about it, and I don't support it. But I have yet to hear any other ideas. Whether SOPA passes or not, this issue will not go away until some sort of solution is found.

This video will not in any genuine way contribute to the OP and topic... but I found this video hilarious.








Sorry for trash posting.

There are certainly some on the anti-SOPA side that are about the freedom to download with no respect to what it is. I'm not part of that group. I understand exactly the point that zongtseng is making and I do agree with him. I'm still not for these bills. It's all about the unintended consequences.

For the most part if the law were applied as intended by the authors I don't see too much wrong with it. The problem is what will happen with the bill in it's current form and some of the more extreme proponents. I want my wikipedia in it's current form. I don't want the possibility of search engines being totally shut down because they happened to pick up a link to a link of a torrent site. those things make no sense.

Make no mistake, we will be getting a bill that contains many of the major provisions of SOPA/PIPA. It's just going to be missing some of the more egregious provisions. Well I at least hope so.

Copying does not equal stealing, get your semantics straight if you want to be taken seriously.

The irony of saying that the argument of other is a weak one, then having none of your own whatsoever is just pathetic. You can't own information, nor steal it because of that. Information isn't a quantifiable product that can be reasonably measured in value, because all things of value must have some manner of controllable quantity, for they are worthless otherwise. It's the perverted concept of effort mixed with value what you fail to realize here.

Anyhow, you are clearly so rabid and clueless that I don't know why I even bother.

You have no concept of anything. I'm rabid and clueless? Watch yourself. I didn't use personal insults, and if you intend to remain on this site, you will not use them either.

https://market.android.com/details?i...ttsopa.android

Brilliant idea.
https://lh4.ggpht.com/aYbQjrOEMndqBM...2ofhvbRHskfpk_

A lot of useful tools and links: http://nlb-creations.com/2012/01/14/...d-users-alike/

To piracy, you mean? As mentioned, there isn't one. Businesses have to adapt or die, sorry.

There's no need to apologize to me. For about the millionth time, I don't like or support SOPA either. But everyone sticking their head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge there's a problem is just as counterproductive as a bad bill.

Trust me, these companies won't die. They WILL get a law of some sort put through, if we all don't find another answer first. Apologize to the much-weakened internet we will end up with, not me.

Awesome! :war:

^ Indeed, you just about summed up my feelings on this subject.

I get about 100 hits... a week :D, but I took my site down anyway. I'm doing my very small part to help protest. :)
SyteUnseen.net

TOS joining the fight is a really good move, we all need to be in this together as it concerns every one of us.
It's really worrying that this could happen, which would take out the only true form of democracy that we have.
We all need to spread the word.

You have no arguments worth addressing, so that is what you get for entering a debate with no substance of your own. You just shout that something is wrong without realizing that the matter is far more complex than what can be summarized as petty thievery.

Oh look at me, I'm a big scary admin with privileges to put you down. An idiot with power is still an idiot none the less, and if you fail to realize that, then go ahead, make my day.

Well,I emailed my representative, so I did something at least. But I was looking for a pro SOPA thing just to post as a joke on FaceBook. Like one to email your senators about how you support them. But, I couldn't find one, which is good news. But I do have a feeling this won't be a people's choice eventually.

Exactly, and that's what I've been trying to say in this thread. Yes, SOPA sucks. But, unless people realize that there's a problem, and that at least *something* must be done, stuff like this will be passed eventually.

US law and government has always been about finding a compromise. No, no one wants to just give blanket authority, to anyone, to choose to black out every site that mentions the slightest thing that the MPAA or RIAA would object to. However, there are plenty of sites that exist solely for the purpose of trading copyrighted material. If an online store popped up, that sold stolen merchandise, how long do you think it would be before it was shut down, and all the operators arrested? You can claim its "just numbers", or that "information can't be stolen", but you know it is actual, real movies, songs, games, and other things that are being stolen.

All I am saying is that the two sides both need to acknowledge the other side's real, legitimate problem, and work together to fix it. That's the way civilized people deal with things.

Well copying things is not even remotely compered to stealing, it's just digital copy of one thing :D Like Spanish supreme court ruled that p2p is a modern version of library :) I don't want to defend piracy it's bad, but still not that bad/evil as stealing.
btw

"Copying Is Not Theft" animation with Jonathan Mann vocals - YouTube

That's what google's page was all about; yet people also need to recognise that censorship never works - it can and will always be bypassed.

I agree with that. Stealing movies and games and music online is probably wrong, but putting censorship laws in isn't going to stop people from stealing them. The people who want to will still find a way around it. The censorship laws would hurt the the non-pirates more. It'd be tough to stop pirating, but keep the internet Free.