Can the Na'vi breathe an Earthlike atmosphere?
 

With their ability to breathe the highly acidic (by Earth standards) atmosphere that is also laced with greater than 18% CO2, would the Na'vi need their own self contained breathing apparatus to be able to breathe where humans were not wearing exopacks?
Niri Te

I'm no doctor or biology scientist or whatever, but referring to
Na'vi need oxygen like we humans do in order to keep organs and muscles and stuff running properly.
So I'd say it is very likely that they might breathe our atmospheric composition of gas without being poisoned, hurt or whatever.
On the other hand... too much of oxygen might even damage human lungs and cause other kind of damage to the human body. So it might be possible that the Na'vi would get "hurt" by breathing here on Earth without something like an Exopack.

But that's just an assumption.

IIRC there is roughly the same amount of oxygen in the Pandoran atmosphere as there is on Earth, so no real risk of oxygen poisoning. The exopacks were more for the excess CO2 and sulfuric acid in the Pandoran air. So unless the Na'vi somehow need these to live, they sound be fine on Earth. The only problem is that they might not be as athletic or physically capable, because our atmosphere is about 20% thinner and they might get mild hypoxia issues.

As we know Pandoran air causes immediate problems for humans. It's that 18% CO2 that we really can't deal with. We also can't deal with some of the minor constituents, but I think that the CO2 is the largest and most immediate problem. Likewise the lack of that CO2 would likely cause problems for organisms adapted to Pandoran air.

There is likely one big significant difference. The lack of CO2 would most likely be a much slower problem. A breath or two of the Pandoran mix puts a human down. The lack of CO2 isn't going to be at the same level. While there could be a whole host of issues associated with the lack of CO2, the largest would likely be blood pH changes. Dissolved CO2 is a weak acid and the lack of that acid would drive the pH up.

I agree with Txen, an osmotic shock could kill easily...

Also, do you remember the scene when Jake was driving his avatar for the first time? The room was filled with pandoran air, instead of the earth one. If the na'vi would be able to breathe earth air, there would be no need to use pandoran air. Then the scientists wouldn't have to wear exopacks.

The reason that I was asking about a Na'vi's ability to handle an Earthly atmospheric chemistry, is because my real life wife, Tee, (Ateyo Te Syaksyuk), is doing a story that starts out eight years after the RDA vrrtep have been sent packing. In it, a unusually short statured (five feet tall), Na'vi and a Samoan former RDA, rebel pilot who is FIERCELY loyal to the Na'vi, their way of life, and Eywa, meet, and become very good friends, and in the future chapters, romantically involved.
After time, just before the two of them become too close, the pilot makes a joke concerning her need to wear a mask, and therefore not be able to kiss the Na'vi, saying that "it is like the storyline in an ancient Earth Movie called Ladyhawke where the two lovers can never be together".
IF, and this is a BIG "if", the Na'vi can tolerate an Earthlike atmosphere with their blood chemistry not going off the charts, then the short Na'vi or far better yet, a Science Tech. from Grace's old crew, could explain the fact to the pilot, and the small Na'vi.
Niri Te

Haha, sounds cute. I've heard some speculation before about na'vi possibly being able to breathe in an Earth atmosphere, but Lahea brings up a good point about the room with the scientists. However, I'm sure if they could breathe the air we do, they'd at least be a little weaker from it, and that scene in the medical room was meant to evaluate how well the avatars were functioning. If the air quality could have any effect on that (and it probably would), it would be better to have Pandoran air in the room.

This is my heartsick poem.with Translation below:
YAYO TSUN YAWNE PAYOANG
Yayo tsun yawne payoang
Slä tsepenge peyfo si kelku?
Tawtute tsun yawne Na'vi
Slä peyfu si ya tsopil?
Oeyäa sraw twe'lan!
Peyfu tsun ting sapom,
Fu si tsaheyl?
Nemrey~Nìfayo~Nìo!?
Yawne run f'yao, ma kalin
Yawne run f'yao

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A bird can love a fish
But where would they make their home?
A Tawtute can love a Na'vi
But how would they breathe?
Or commit tsaheylu?
My aching heart!
How can we share a kiss?
In a life-dependent manner~In an enjoyable manner!?
Love will find a way, my sweet.
Love will find a way!

In an Earth composition atmosphere, it would be yes, as the O2 concentration is almost the same, while xenon has no biological function due to its properties; while Earth as seen in Avatar would be unlikely.
CO2 does have a function in regulating metabolic rate, although due to the concentration difference, this may be unique to Earth animals, and even if not, would not have any short-term effects (much as humans can survive in 4% for a week or more).

There's a very good reason for wearing exopacks when Jake is first linking - he's going outside anyway, so it's easier to have it depressurised than use the airlock (indeed, . A normal gas mixture would also be less of a shock on first 'awakening' to the avatar. Of course, Jake might have just depressurised the airlock by pushing it open anyway :P

Humans can live in atmospheres with very different compositions as long as there is enough oxygen and not too much of things humans find poisonous. For quite some time NASA was using a pure oxygen atmosphere for its astronauts. And deep sea expeditions substitute helium for the usual nitrogen. So the Na'vi could probably tolerate a human atmosphere for quite some time. Long-term exposure might cause some problems.

That's cool, I'm curious about the absence of the Hydrogen sulfate in the Earthlike atmosphere.Would the increased alkalinity of the Earthlike atmosphere have a bac effect on them? Just for grins, I'm wondering if the much higher CO2 content is a partial cause for the carbon fifer in their bones?
Niri Te

The CO2 wouldn't affect their bones afaik (no real way for that to happen), while the alkalinity might perhaps be irritating, but not something that would prevent their breathing the atmosphere, much like excess humidity.

It's the effect of sulfuric acid that has me concerned. Would Irrta clothing, plastics, and metals corrode and disintegrate more easily on Pandora. Would Na'vi skin burn your lips if you tried to kiss?

...and if a tsatute could be able to sneak a bit of Na'vi food into the mask, would it cause blisters on the tongue and throat? Could sawtute be inoculated on the voyage to build up resistance to the sulphuric acid? What percentage is in Pandora's atmosphere?
Would our eyes be damaged as well?

IIRC, one source says Pandora's atmosphere is something along the lines of 0.1% sulphuric acid hydrogen sulphide. The dissolution of sulfuric acid into water is exothermic, and to a certain extent self-perpetuating. "Water" includes a lot of exterior surfaces, such as your eyes, interior of your nose, and lungs. As far as I can tell, Quaritch is dead as soon as he steps out of the airlock, no saving throw, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. :cool:

Hydrogen Sulphide is not Sulfuric Acid, their relative PH's are different. The end result would be the same, the time required to reach the end result would be different.

IRAYO MA CLARKE! That seems like a big BOO-BOO in the production. The atmosphere isn't as caustic as was claimed if Quaritch was able to remain alive after kicking open the airlock door! If Cameron is going to play fast and loose with the "facts" that he created, then so can we! ATEYO the ANARCHYST

Hydrogen sulphide was used as a chemical weapon in WWI, in far lower concentrations than it is apparently present on Pandora AFAIK.

...for its toxicity, not as an acid - the latter would just be stupid, especially when there are far better options when that's the intended effect.

Also, it was actually mustard gas (chlorine and sulphur compounds) and chlorine which were used primarily.


What?
JC never made a mistake, clarke did (hopefully a mistake... -.- )

Sulphuric acid is an incredibly nasty thing to have floating around as a vapour, but I did make a mistake in that hydrogen sulphide is the thing in Pandora's atmosphere. The figure of 0.1% is that for H2S, but I cannot find a source more reliable than the Wiki.

However, I am still confident that 0.1% H2S would immediately kill Quaritch on contact.

That scene Quaritch should then be eliminated from the movie and the speech on the troop ship should be changed to reflect this more accurately. Someone go tell Cameron!
Ateyo Te SyakSyuk

Could it be that in ceertain regions of the planet, the air composition could be different?
For iinstance, the Los Angeles basin lends itself to accumulating smog. (The Native People named it the Valley of the Smokes)
Just saying ...

You mean whether or not he breathed any of it?

Even if he didn't breath any of it, could you imagine what it would do to his EYES? He couldn't SEE to make the shots at the flex wing, and give it a week, and he might be blind.
Niri Te

You're thinking of HCN.

Pandora's atmosphere is higher pressure than Earth's, which means it'll force itself through his nose. If that alone doesn't cause mortal damage, the pain of having his eyeballs destroyed will probably make him gasp, and thus inhale it.

Quoth Wiki:

Your quote gives me the impression these effects don't occur until you breathe at least some amount of it.

Also,

This doesn't mean he'll be forced to breath it, only that it'll barely creep into his sinuses.

Wrong.
Pressure is not necessarily higher, you're thinking of density. Vehicles and buildings are pressurised above ambient so in case of minor damage, atmosphere leaks out and not in. Pandora's atmospheric pressure is actually 0.9atm, so presumably the vehicles and buildings are ~1.0 or more.

H2S is not toxic on skin contact except as a liquid. He would have had some eye irritation, as well as to mucous membranes of nose/throat, but it is perfectly possible not to actually inhale it.

ALWAYS pack your rain poncho then. Everything would have been SOOOO much simpler if they would have left THAT nasty little chemical OUT of the Pandoran atmosphere. The high CO2 levels alone would have required the use of the exopacks, without making the atmosphere to totally destructive to almost everything.
I would LOVE to see an autopsy on a Na'vi resperatory system, they might be bipeds, and have some external Human like characteristics, but they are FAR removed from us, to be able to function in that caustic an environment.
Niri Te

HHHRR! OISSSS! I remember reading about several incidents where American scientistswere so enthralled with American Indian physiology that they performed vivisections(William Beaumont comes to mind)
I KNOW YOU AREN'T SUGGESTING ANYTHING OF THE SORT just an unpleasant ssociation.
That said, it would be interesting to know how their lungs were different. (!)

I was under the impression that H2S was a vapour, when it is actually a gas, just, at STP. That does save Quaritch some pain, but the fact that vehicles might be pressurized doesn't, since he walks straight out of the building into the open air at one point.

However, I think you are downplaying how much damage it'll do; the WW1 era British Army commented that H2S was "not an ideal war gas," at 1/10th the concentration it's apparently has in the atmosphere. Even small amounts of it in his eyes or windpipe would cause severe damage.

How could the building not be pressurised? He kicks open a door, which doesn't have an airlock on it so I would guess is some kind of emergency exit. That's a BIG hole, so the internal pressure is lost all at once, as opposed to slowly when there is minor damage.

Chemical warfare in a context such as WW1 was ideally to injure rather than kill since then the enemy would be forced to spend more resources.

AND THEY ARE OFF!!! Place your bets now people! Who will win this scientific show down!!


Actually one thing to consider apart from earth's air is the gravity. For humans the lighter gravity of Pandora doesn't seem to bad, but the Na'vi may have a problem on earth. Depending on sciencey things I have no idea about the lower gravity could in theory cause their lungs to "collapse". The lighter atmosphere on earth would also be a problem.

Also, Earth's atmosphere is pretty much trashed by the time Avatar takes place. Sure human's can tolerate the smog (we adapted!) but to the Na'vi all those pollutants would be very deadly.

Not at +0.2G. Humans are fine exposed to a lot more than that via centrifuge.

The issue of Earth in the Avatar universe is a point worth considering though, but that's more of an issue than Earthlike general composition e.g. indoors at Hell's Gate.