I think that Women CAN achieve that level of ecological maturity, though due to their upbringing. I believe that women raised in a Native environment have a much easier job of it. The woman who is sharing our 19 anniversary with me today and I are both part Native American, and we were both raised immersed in the culture, but in families that had no problem with alcohol, so it is VERY easy for us to "keep it real" in day to day life. Neither one of us would even be considered "pretty" by society's standards, yet because of our feelings about, and actions while upon, the wheel of life, make each of us beautiful beyond words to each other, not because of physical appearance, but because of who we are. That is not an unreachable goal for people as appearance is, and if people strive to emulate THOSE qualities of the character of Ni'tiri, they would remove a lot of stress in their lives.
Niri Te

The thing is, it doesn't trigger anything, nor would men cream their khakis when they see an image like that. Nothing is really manufactured because there's already pre-determined features that can make one beautiful. Like I said, there's a "golden ratio" when it comes to facial symmetry. No one's going to have to have the latest Swiffer vacuum (Which looks pretty bad ass) just because a symmetrical, beautiful woman told us to buy it. Well, maybe some men might, but I hope not.
If women want plastic surgery to be more symmetrical, they should be able to do so. That goes for men as well. It's good to encourage an environment where no one is judged by their physical appearance, but let's be honest, that will never happen. Ever. We live (in North America at least) in a world where men usually gain recognition and status through wealth, and women who are beautiful are usually much more powerful. And it all goes back to having sex (though that's something for a different thread).

The "beautiful Miss Germany" image, though symmetrical and appealing, I'm sure most wouldn't go "goo-goo eyes" over a woman who looked exactly like that. She's pleasing to the eyes, yes, but there's nothing particularly ravishing. Every man (I think) has certain preferences that they look for, usually. I like when a girl has a small but visible scar on her face, I have a god friend who likes women with freckles and a friend who loves it when women have gauged ears, the bigger the plugs the better.
So I don't really things like images of symmetrical women can influence our desires or our opinions. I think.

Educate yourself.

Concern troll - RationalWiki

You are coming off as one.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1373/tinfoilhatq.jpg

That is impossible, because people don't react the same way to the same stimuli. There ARE individuals who are generally/widely considered attractive and ones who are widely considered unattractive. Neither is universal.

No, they can't (or, rather, no more than any other method of advertising), otherwise everyone would be constantly buying every advertised item. Advertising is highly competitive due to its nature, and the time and resources spend on research are extreme - if there was some magic formula, it would be literally omnipresent. On the other hand, production of images is generally cheaper, easier, and faster turnaround than using live models, the only discrepancy.

People do that anyway. Are you trying to imply that people DON'T fantasise about foo random celebrity/person they know/random person they walk past? If so, you have abandoned all pretence of having an actual point and this can be seen as nothing more than concern trolling.

So you oppose plastic surgery? Wow. What next, forcing everyone to not show their faces in public because some people are better looking than others? Becoming the Handicapper General from Harrison Bergeron?
If someone wants to seek an ideal in appearance (or any other respect), it's their right and prerogative to.

Ada Wong of the Resident Evil series is an attractive woman and CG too. But do i have to look out for a girl that looks and act like she does? No, because its a Game. And there are a lot of Games and movies out who wouldn't work without any kind of beauty and all that... in case of Avatar, especially Neytiri, stop wasting time and words about some researchcrap... Thats not the reason why iam at ToS!

Still many companies and their marketing divisions seems to think so. How many times have they not tried to sell all sorts of things by having beautiful looking women in commercials? And if you manage to enhance the features that we perceive as beautiful further by computer imaging, then why could that not be used to even sell more products?

well, I suppose you are right, but perhaps one at least should try to curb the most excessive tendencies of promoting specific ideals of beauty. After all eating disorders (anorexia and similar) and other fixations about weight and looks is a growing health problem in the industrial world and it costs a lot of suffering and resources.

You read to much into my posts. I just like to see different sides of a subject and discuss different apects of it.

Sometimes it seems that you are too intolerant and go berserk as soon as anyone questions some aspect of your favourite fantasy world.

So why is there at all a whole industry (marketing, commecials and similar) that make a living on triggering our instincts by showing us different kinds of stimuli, among them pictures of people that have features that at least many people in our culture find rather attractive? Behavioral psychology do actually show that there are features that triggers certain responses in us. Also different companies spend millions to find the right triggers to use in marketing.

Noone talks about a magic formula, but still there are things that are known to trigger our emotions and desires. And they are frequently used.

Yes, obviously many people loose themselves in all sorts of dreams. Some do it in such a degree that they forget the real world, they become passive instead of trying to actively make the real world a better place.

As I mentioned before, to hysterically try to conform to some unobtainable ideal of beauty have distorted the minds of many young people (especially girls) leading to different disorders (as for example anorexia) causing a lot of suffering in our society.

But that perhaps is of no consequence as long as some company can make a lot of money profiting from it?

Because there is no magic method. If there was, a while industry would be unnecessary. You just answered your own question :P

That isn't magic. It doesn't guarantee anything, and can be done with humans too.

...and? That's their prerogative.

That's their fault. People can still aspire to anything they like and should do so without a wannabe Handicapper General telling them they can't.

As I said noone said anything about magic, but still there are a lot of tricks to trigger different kind of psycological responses in us. If there were no such things commercials would not be profitable.

Passive citizens can be a danger ofr society since many of them just go along with all sorts of bad things without trying to fight them. Democracy is dependent on active, well informed citizens. Passive or uninformed citizens can lead us very wrong.

Many people can obviously not see the connections between their own actions and the way the world looks like today.

Unfortunately the commercial messages telling us how we shall look and what is beautiful or not beautiful actually cost many lives (eating disorders can be deadly) and a lot of suffering among young gullible people. Many of these young people are not mature enough to withstand the tempest of messages that tell them how they must look or act to be accepted.

The stupidity of this thread is beyond words.

Being passive isn't dangerous, being ignorant is.

Well, many times ignorance leads to passivity (and also the other way around). And being passive means that you many times just go on consuming and living without actively making informed choices. And such consumption in its turn contributes to the destruction of our world.

We live in such an interconnected world that everything we do, or not do, have implications for our world.

It's useless to fight a loosing battle, and the sooner you realize this, the sooner you can stop trying.

This is certainly true, but again, there's hardly any alternatives to be had when it comes to certain necessary choices.


Anyhow, the main issue I have with this thread is the whole 'nobody wants real women anymore' nonsense. Then again I guess it can be true to a certain extent, but the reasons behind that are much more elaborate than the stuff you go on about.

Well, then one can perhaps just sit down, turn on the screen and sit there until the end of days.

Hopefully there can still be different choices if one actively pursues them.

The main issue is rather that many women (and especially young girls) believe that they must live up to some unrealistic standard of beauty. That causes, in the worst cases psychological disorders that sometimes can be dangerous (as anorexia). And there are some guys that contribute to the mess by demanding that girls must comply to that standard.

What does this have to do with anything?

People choose to do and believe whatever they want, and that is not fault of anyone else.

Well, anorexy and similar conditions is a rather big health problems that affect many young people. It causes suffering and also drains resources that could be spent on other things.

And peoples choices are not always their own. Many young people are so easily affected and manipulated so it ought to cause some concern what we brainwash them into.

I guess I don't have to wonder anymore why people don't take you seriously.