If they develop, it IS a survival/reproduction advantage (in the absence of inbreeding, conscious selective breeding, or geographical/social isolation - and even then, it can be considered one in a more limited sense within selective breeding). An example is how humans are getting taller, because taller people are generally considered more attractive, and, no matter how marginally, more likely to be competed for and successfully reproduce.

Atavism is well known and understood, but only arises in individuals, primarily due to mutation, or in some cases particular rare genetic combinations (such as having a webbed toe). Actually reestablishing a lost phenotype that is still present in DNA is far more difficult.

Most of the reason we are taller now than we were even a hundred years ago is because of increased nutrition in the average diet, although you probably are right about height being selected for.

Yes, for traits to become an important part they have better chance if they pose an advantage overall, but as long as the cost of that trait is not important, even traits that are neutral can continue or come about.

Human body size - it now is basically the same as 20000 years ago. There was an increase though over longer times (tens/hundreds of thousands of years). The dip human body size took in the time between about 10.000 years ago and about 100 years ago was mostly due to malnutrition brought about by agricultural food production. There are plenty of studies on this.

A trait becoming common (and not considered a mutation or atavism) and one surviving as normal variance are entirely different things - you have changed your entire point of view.

Even in the early 20th century, average height was in the mid-5foot range, among people who were not malnourished. Yet again, you turn a thread into a personal 'agriculture is bad lol' soapbox for absolutely no reason, while at the same time, managing to misunderstand evolution.



Anyway... I wish I could dream of Pandora... I haven't dreamed at all for too long :(

It was a common trait in neolithic times, and yes, the agricultural revolution did cause a crash in human height. Only now are we returning to those heights and pre-ag levels of health. Read some Jared Diamond.


Jared Diamond - The Worst Mistake in the History of the Human Race

Just sayin'...

Now, back to dreaming.

nice idea ;) - it's a Pandora dreams thread, after all...

Anything's possible when you dream. Now if only we didn't wake up when things got interesting. :rolleyes:

Just a short one: Epigenetics (animals actually adapt and pass on traits without change to DNA): Epigenetic 'memory' key to nature versus nurture

And onother one on body height and nutrition, drawing on 20 studies: Dawn of agriculture took toll on health

Recently I forget all my dreams again. That is sad :( - I want to know my dreams. I guess I need to start that dreamlog again - or maybe have less stress (and workdays shorter than 11 hours ;) )

this night: I've had a dream that I was in a hotel with an old Chinese painting on the wall, maybe several centuries old. It was a landscape... that looked like the Iknimaya. I was like this: O.O "Oh... my... God..." ("You should see your face(s)!" ) :D

I just wish I could film, or at least make a photo of that dream, & post it here!

I love the nights I dream about Pandora. My last one I was in an area of Pandora that I did not recognise In my dreams I am a na'vi. There were brown rope vines with red leaves hanging down from a massive tree above me. small butterfly like creatures were flitting around. I call out for my Ikran Torren and he comes, we fly off into the sky..
(this was my dream) also I just want to say that sometimes I have a na'vi husband, I think his name is Touk'kay is this wierd to have a dream with a na'vi partner?

you're a lucky one, with your Pandora dreams & a Na'vi husband... So many people want to but don't get this chance! Enjoy, ma tsmuke!

It's not weird. I dream of Neytiri sometimes... :'(
I want them to be real so much.

Cool - nice dream with the details in the landscape. And nice that you also know the names of the Ikran and your husband in the dream. I rarely have names for anything in my dreams (which sadly are not so much about Pandora as I would like them to be)

moar Pandora dreams:
One was short - I was seeing Jake walking in bioluminiscent night on a huge branch, the moss was lighting greenish-bluish at each step. It was already after the movie finished & Jake became a Na'vi for real & forever; the sensation I got from him was: "This is MY world; I was born for This". He looked happy.

Another maybe has to go to Dreams (general) cos it's funny:
It was something like a sequel. The Omatikaya heard rumours that the RDA were sneaking back into a remote location. Jake & Norm who had his Avatar body back (probably cured by Mo'at) were talking about checking it out. Norm was sent out as a scout. He jumped on a dire... camel :S & rode away. When he returned he reported to Jake that yes there were some curious skypeople around but very few. Jake asked if the mission had gone well & if anybody had seen him - Norm replied that nope, everything turned out perfect; nobody saw him & he was back with the info. Then Jake said: "Wait... Norm... and your necklace??" - "Oh sh**" , - Norm replied, "I must have dropped it out there". You should have seen Jake's face at that :shoop::shoop::shoop:

I don't think Mo'at knows advanced surgical techniques :P

Weird dream though, sounds like it might be something from a film with the part about leaving a necklace there.