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  #16  
Old 04-13-2010, 04:18 PM
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As always, I am speaking for myself and nobody else here:

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Originally Posted by Human No More View Post
Eltu, I agree with you on most things, but here, you're not so right.

You can't blame society's problems on understanding. If anything, the opposite. There is so much else that IMHO have a FAR bigger effect... Greed, religion and intolerance just to name three. Everything that causes our problems is anti-understanding as I see it.
All I'm saying, is that I think that we tries to understand things in the *wrong* way. We don't *have* to know everything about the tiniest bit of the universe, in my opinion - knowing that we can do something of our lifes, that we have a meaning in our lifes,
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I don't NEED a meaning. The meaning is this: Make life what you can. Do what you want. Be happy, be yourself. Just because there's no INHERENT meaning, doesn't mean one can't be found.
Anyway, speak for yourself. Knowing we are not alone in the universe, knowing the scale of everything, it gives me a real sense of wonder, of awe and appreciation that I could never get from any flat-Earth mentality.
JUST as you say here, is enough. In other words, I agree with you about finding an own meaning in life.

Think for yourself - in THIS society, in the modern word, scientific understanding gives you a feeling of appreciation, gives you something to strive for. But if we NEVER had this society, we would not NEED this knowledge. Which is what I am trying to say.


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Personal goals, yes. But imagine for a second if it was done for the good of humanity instead. Look at there we'd be. We could already be on Pandora by now if it was.
It won't be used for the good of humanity, I am 100% sure of this, personally. It is as you say yourself, greed will ALWAYS exist.
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  #17  
Old 04-13-2010, 06:38 PM
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Last month I was at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. There seems to be a general disgust with some of the plans in Washington concerning this. Some of the employees there, at least one of them said to us that some of the missions (such as the one that was supposed to get us back to the moon) has been scraped. I don't know about the other ones but it does seem like that this administration is unfriendly to the space program. The shuttle program was going to be retired soon. That was already in the works. However, they were going to start going with a new kind of system. Now, I don't know what will be the future of it. Hopefully a plan will be made soon.
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  #18  
Old 04-13-2010, 06:55 PM
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WTF? And if there is an Asteroid coming our way how do we save it then, oh let me guess then because it's nature plan we let it happen right? F*ck off really!

And actually no many of the developments thanks to the space program have been beneficial and not the other way around. And is thanks to Space exploration that we understand our own world better and how to save it!
First of all, I'm still learning English and it's hard enough to write in a language I don't even speak everyday, so don't blame me for that.

And justifying spacial development because of an asteroid is like justifying nuclear weaponry saying that if we had an alien invasion we would need it to protect Earth (just like in many Sci-Fi movies).

Astronomy is just useful to know about space, but won't stop any menace from it. We haven't got that power.
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  #19  
Old 04-13-2010, 06:59 PM
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First of all, I'm still learning English and it's hard enough to write in a language I don't even speak everyday, so don't blame me for that.

And justifying spacial development because of an asteroid is like justifying nuclear weaponry saying that if we had an alien invasion we would need it to protect Earth (just like in many Sci-Fi movies).

Astronomy is just useful to know about space, but won't stop any menace from it. We haven't got that power.

And I personally think that kind of knowledge is useless. Yes, we might have curiosity for what's going on around us, but once you know it, for what is it worth?
It is worth it to learn about the world around us. It has helped in various advancements as well. Sure, I don't know if we will be able to do anything about an asteroid but it doesn't hurt to try. Knowledge does help in some ways .
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  #20  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:06 PM
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It is worth it to learn about the world around us. It has helped in various advancements as well. Sure, I don't know if we will be able to do anything about an asteroid but it doesn't hurt to try. Knowledge does help in some ways .
I am with you there, knowledge is something good always; but what I do not agree with PunkMaister is on the asteroid point. You just can't save Earth with a space shuttle or radio telescope.
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  #21  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:10 PM
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I am with you there, knowledge is something good always; but what I do not agree with PunkMaister is on the asteroid point. You just can't save Earth with a space shuttle or radio telescope.
This is true. However, there are other technologies that can be developed. I have heard of the sort that might try to deflect the asteroid. Again, I don't know if any of the technologies will work but its worth trying to develop. What will definitely not work is trying to nuke it regardless of what a certain movie would have anyone believe.
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  #22  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:16 PM
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I am with you there, knowledge is something good always; but what I do not agree with PunkMaister is on the asteroid point. You just can't save Earth with a space shuttle or radio telescope.
But you can with you learn from missions like this for example:






By learning what the damn things are made off and what makes them tick we can devise ways to deflect them hell some are already working on such schemes.

You have to think outside the box not everything needs to be solved Death Star style as let's blow the thing up...
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:33 AM
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With the space program shut down the future is sealed we are doomed the end...
That is what Capitalism has done to the space programme. Oh well, I thought you would be happy.
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  #24  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:00 AM
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Alot of you have got it wrong, but there is one outstanding character here who has it right.

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Don't want to sound ignorant, but I just don't see the point to space or clonation programs. Really.
Ugh. I'm not wasting my time replying to that.

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Believe it or not is what he intends to do and before the congressional elections given the commie congress that is allied to the hip with him it is most likely that it will become a horrifying reality all too soon.

Unless all of us act all will be lost so join the Save the Human Space Exploration program now!
If you think the congress is communist, then I can say you are a clearly disturbed character. I can tell you that we should be stopping all space programmes in favor of funding technology development like Miguel Alcubierre's warp drive.

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OK for as long as he and his Commie congress are in power then, the point is it will be even more expensive to start over than anything else and that's exactly what will probably happen if NASA is not defunct by then which means a whole new new program, agency the works...
The technology is in place and can be used to some advantage in the future. However NASA's entire budget needs to be plowed into technology like I've stated above. You don't jump to the moon before you've got your springs on.

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Originally Posted by Iluvrien View Post
Scrapping it altogether suggests it will never be developed. On hold means that it will be developed at some point. Has the development program been ended? Heck yeah, keeping that many people and material floating in limbo would cost a phenomenal amount of money. It really is a better idea to close it now, redirect the efforts and money and concentrate on expanding the tech base for future projects.

And you know what? That is my professional opinion. In 10 days time I will undertake the final oral examination for my doctorate, in space physics. I have been involved with the people who comprise the NASA and ESA communities since I first started studying physics in 1998. I hope that by now I have a fairly good working understanding of how the space industry handles itself. On the basis of that experience, I actually think that "Obama and his commie congress" have probably made the best decision in a tough situation.

If you honestly believe that the basis of this policy decision was the intended removal of the US from manned space exploration for the rest of history then I really don't know what I can tell you. A view that fundamentally biased can't really be argued with.
I am glad to see an educated poster with relevant clearly cut posts. You are dead right.

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Originally Posted by Eltu View Post
I'm with ZenitJerkes here, actually. I see only bad things coming from space exploration. We have a wonderful planet, we can save our planet. Exploring other planets and destroying them as well is just... wrong.

I think going out in the universe is the wrong way to go. Human is greedy in nature. If we DO find other habitable worlds, we WOULD industrialize and destroy them.

There is incredibly much beauty on Earth, so much to explore, to see. We can save this.
We CAN'T save this planet, capitalism has destroyed, we need to let it die and then rehabilitate it once there is technology that can be utilized to do such for a realistic cost. I think you've also got your outlook on extra-solar industrialization wrong, once technology advances further enough, we will see a decline in 'ugly' industry architecture.

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I'm with PunkMaister here.
Will it do us any good to retreat into a 'we are the only people in the universe' mentality? OF COURSE NOT. If you think so, why not bring back geocentricism and flat-earth-ism while you're at it?
Ironically, without space exploration, we will NEVER find Pandora. If the space program had been ended in the reality that led to Avatar, humans wouldn't be on Pandora, and the Earth would just be a series of radioactive craters.
Eltu, nobody is talking about abandoning Earth, but the truth is, if humanity wants to survive in the long term (talking centuries as a minimum here), then we HAVE to explore space.

I just hope that when he gets kicked out, he gets replaced by someone who actually knows what they're doing. He is doing a lot of good things (e.g. finally giving the USA healthcare...), but calling him a 'commie' is a bit of an extreme reaction (anyway, I'd rather have him than some fundamentalist right wing extreme christian...), but he really doesn't know what he's doing there.
...and people wonder why China is gaining on America... it's because they know what is worth spending money on.

Ah well, maybe if NASA ask nicely they can put some people on Chinese/Russian/ESA missions...
Yeah.... as long as we're exploring space at superluminal speeds, if we explore at sublight I'll take a gun to my head right now if you like?

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Originally Posted by PunkMaister View Post
WTF? And if there is an Asteroid coming our way how do we save it then, oh let me guess then because it's nature plan we let it happen right? F*ck off really!

And actually no many of the developments thanks to the space program have been beneficial and not the other way around. And is thanks to Space exploration that we understand our own world better and how to save it!
Ha ha. We can put technology in place to save ourselves I'm sure. Especially if there is money in it. By the way, we won't be blasting any asteroids bigger than 50 squared meters for at least another 60 years. So you better hope that asteroid doesn't come knocking.
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2010, 03:27 PM
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Alot of you have got it wrong, but there is one outstanding character here who has it right.
Really now?



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Ugh. I'm not wasting my time replying to that.
Well congrats you did got one right out all yourself when it comes to that particular post.



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If you think the congress is communist, then I can say you are a clearly disturbed character. I can tell you that we should be stopping all space programmes in favor of funding technology development like Miguel Alcubierre's warp drive.
The overhelming mayority of current so called Democrat congress is indeed composed of Marxists and Maoists, they have publicly state how much they admire both men and love their example as well as that of Castro. The development of such tech is decades away at best if not longer so while I agree that it should be pursued by no means I agree we should stop everything and put all our eggs on that basket alone.





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The technology is in place and can be used to some advantage in the future. However NASA's entire budget needs to be plowed into technology like I've stated above. You don't jump to the moon before you've got your springs on.
Again the tech you speak is at leas at the most optimistic guess 50 to 60 years away, that's the downside for people like me who are now 43 at least and probably won't get too see it anyway, the upside is that it will open up the galaxy for exploration, but why not explore and colonize our own neighborhood in the meantime and by neighborhood I mean our own solar system.


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We CAN'T save this planet, capitalism has destroyed, we need to let it die and then rehabilitate it once there is technology that can be utilized to do such for a realistic cost. I think you've also got your outlook on extra-solar industrialization wrong, once technology advances further enough, we will see a decline in 'ugly' industry architecture.
Newsflash: The world is not dead nor destroyed and the biggest and worst environmental damage this planet has endured has been at the hands of Marxist regimes not Capitalism so go suck on that lollipop for a while...

And on that note:

SpaceShipOne Makes History with First Manned Private Spaceflight!

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Yeah.... as long as we're exploring space at superluminal speeds, if we explore at sublight I'll take a gun to my head right now if you like?
Again that is over 50 years away at best even if all funding in the world is diverted to it which won't happen. Unless you are 18 or in your early 20's you won't get to see it anyway. And why not explore and colonize the Solar system while FTL which is what you are talking about is developed?

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Ha ha. We can put technology in place to save ourselves I'm sure. Especially if there is money in it. By the way, we won't be blasting any asteroids bigger than 50 squared meters for at least another 60 years. So you better hope that asteroid doesn't come knocking.
For somebody that claims to be a luminary above the rest of all of us mortals you seem unable to think outside the box, an Asteroid can be deflected by other means. Not all solutions involve going Death Star on something.
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  #26  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:08 PM
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Ironic that it was closed by a socialist rather than a capitalist then. I think both philosophies are equally flawed.

I'm not happy about a sequel to that Abrams thing. Canon Star Trek is dead to me, I really doubt I'll bother watching it. Maybe I'll read the plot on wikipedia.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:17 PM
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Ironic that it was closed by a socialist rather than a capitalist then. I think both philosophies are equally flawed.
Obama isn't a socialist. Were you at the boston tea-party by any chance? Both philosophies are flawed, but capitalism has many, many workable flaws where-as socialism has only a small number of unworkable flaws, I plan to mould both ideals one day and eliminate the problems associated with each.

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I'm not happy about a sequel to that Abrams thing. Canon Star Trek is dead to me, I really doubt I'll bother watching it. Maybe I'll read the plot on wikipedia.
Star Trek was being dragged into a ****-hole, you should appreciate the reboot to the series. But I can't change your fundamental beliefs.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:30 PM
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Really now?
Yup.

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Well congrats you did got one right out all yourself when it comes to that particular post.



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Originally Posted by PunkMaister View Post
The overhelming mayority of current so called Democrat congress is indeed composed of Marxists and Maoists, they have publicly state how much they admire both men and love their example as well as that of Castro. The development of such tech is decades away at best if not longer so while I agree that it should be pursued by no means I agree we should stop everything and put all our eggs on that basket alone.

Excuse me based on what? Your sounding like one of those Palin nutjobs. If it wasn't for the god damn democrats people would be starving on the god damn street.

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Again the tech you speak is at leas at the most optimistic guess 50 to 60 years away, that's the downside for people like me who are now 43 at least and probably won't get too see it anyway, the upside is that it will open up the galaxy for exploration, but why not explore and colonize our own neighborhood in the meantime and by neighborhood I mean our own solar system.
Thats right, all the more reason to get the tech research started right now. Colonizing our own solar system isn't feasible, the journeys will take months, longer than it would take for a warp capable ship to travel to the next star system.

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Newsflash: The world is not dead nor destroyed and the biggest and worst environmental damage this planet has endured has been at the hands of Marxist regimes not Capitalism so go suck on that lollipop for a while...

And on that note:

SpaceShipOne Makes History with First Manned Private Spaceflight!
Thats panthetic. As I biologist I know exactly how bad things are. The world is being destroyed, its irreversable. Moreso under capitalism.

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Again that is over 50 years away at best even if all funding in the world is diverted to it which won't happen. Unless you are 18 or in your early 20's you won't get to see it anyway. And why not explore and colonize the Solar system while FTL which is what you are talking about is developed?
Because exploring our local system is a waste of money, further exploration is not need, I would like to see local mining projects taking place. The money would be better spent doing that, and yield more benefits.

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For somebody that claims to be a luminary above the rest of all of us mortals you seem unable to think outside the box, an Asteroid can be deflected by other means. Not all solutions involve going Death Star on something.
If you truly believe I think that way, then its because of people like you, who fail to do any thinking at all. If your saying that you can think outside the box, or at least leading me to believe that, then what have you got to show for it?
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  #29  
Old 04-16-2010, 12:13 AM
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Excuse me based on what? Your sounding like one of those Palin nutjobs. If it wasn't for the god damn democrats people would be starving on the god damn street.
Now that's a load of crap the current batch of democrats all they do is spend money like drunken saylors. And look it up many of them have publicly stated their admiration for Stalin, for Mao and for Castro,

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Thats right, all the more reason to get the tech research started right now. Colonizing our own solar system isn't feasible, the journeys will take months, longer than it would take for a warp capable ship to travel to the next star system.
Excuse me. but so did the early wind driven voyages by sea from one continent to another. And actually there are quite a few schemes that could cut substantially the amount of time you speak about that could make a ship potentially go as fast as a quarter the speed of light.

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Thats panthetic. As I biologist I know exactly how bad things are. The world is being destroyed, its irreversable. Moreso under capitalism.
Irreversible you say? Based on what? If it's irreversible then more reason to hurry space colonization and build space habitats for humanity since as you claim Earth is going to irremediably perish no matter how much we recycle, how much we stop depending on fossil fuels and so on. And you are full of it, one look at the Black sea alone and many other areas of formerly Marxist countries show that the environmental damage there was far, far worse.

And as far as Biologists go you seem to be the only one that is saying is all over, The Earth is already dead period.

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Because exploring our local system is a waste of money, further exploration is not need, I would like to see local mining projects taking place. The money would be better spent doing that, and yield more benefits.
Local mining projects? WTF? so let me get this straight you are screaming to high heaven that all is lost, that we are all irremediably doomed and on top of that you want to start local strip mining projects? For what? So people and the planet can die that much faster?
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:22 AM
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That is what Capitalism has done to the space programme. Oh well, I thought you would be happy.

As human no more very correctly pointed out, it was a Socialist one of your own that shut it down so suck on that lollipop, besides what do you care? According to you Earth is already dead and so are we. You said that is all irreversible so there you go, I guess that's why you want to invest in mining projects instead of going into space, so Earth and Humanity dies that much faster.

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Obama isn't a socialist. Were you at the boston tea-party by any chance? Both philosophies are flawed, but capitalism has many, many workable flaws where-as socialism has only a small number of unworkable flaws, I plan to mould both ideals one day and eliminate the problems associated with each..
How? When as you yourself point out that Capitalism has flaws that are workable meaning they can be dealt with where as Socialism has unworkable flaws meaning they cannot be fixed. Now that just defies logic...

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