Obama Has Permanently Shut The U.S. Manned Space Program. - Tree of Souls - An Avatar Community Forum
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:56 PM
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Angry Obama Has Permanently Shut The U.S. Manned Space Program.

Believe it or not is what he intends to do and before the congressional elections given the commie congress that is allied to the hip with him it is most likely that it will become a horrifying reality all too soon.

Unless all of us act all will be lost so join the Save the Human Space Exploration program now!
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:09 PM
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Don't want to sound ignorant, but I just don't see the point to space or cloning programs. Really.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes View Post
Don't want to sound ignorant, but I just don't see the point to space or clonation programs. Really.
What does Cloning (clonation doesn't exist) has to even do with these? Seriously GET LOST!
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:56 PM
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Permanently? I think not.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:06 AM
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Permanently? I think not.
OK for as long as he and his Commie congress are in power then, the point is it will be even more expensive to start over than anything else and that's exactly what will probably happen if NASA is not defunct by then which means a whole new new program, agency the works...
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:10 AM
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With the space program shut down the future is sealed we are doomed the end...
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:36 AM
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Um. The US manned exploration programme was already going to have to start over. GWB set out the plan for this in 2004. In return for setting aside the shuttles (which are aging and overpriced for their capabilities) he decided to concentrate the money that would have been spent on propping them up on developing a new manned system focussed on returning men to the moon. The loss of the space shuttles predates Obama.

What Obama has done is put the development of the new delivery system on hold while the US economy settles down a bit before working on a launch system that will take men to Mars.

Half of the News articles listed in the last few days on the site that you posted a link to here give this information.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvrien View Post
Um. The US manned exploration programme was already going to have to start over. GWB set out the plan for this in 2004. In return for setting aside the shuttles (which are aging and overpriced for their capabilities) he decided to concentrate the money that would have been spent on propping them up on developing a new manned system focussed on returning men to the moon. The loss of the space shuttles predates Obama.

What Obama has done is put the development of the new delivery system on hold while the US economy settles down a bit before working on a launch system that will take men to Mars.

Half of the News articles listed in the last few days on the site that you posted a link to here give this information.

The new system was not just about Mars, Constellation Capsules and the new reusable rocket tech that accompanied it was meant to open the door to actual space colonization in an efficient and cost effective manner something the shuttle program failed at.

And no he is not putting it on hold he is scraping it all together.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:32 AM
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Scrapping it altogether suggests it will never be developed. On hold means that it will be developed at some point. Has the development program been ended? Heck yeah, keeping that many people and material floating in limbo would cost a phenomenal amount of money. It really is a better idea to close it now, redirect the efforts and money and concentrate on expanding the tech base for future projects.

And you know what? That is my professional opinion. In 10 days time I will undertake the final oral examination for my doctorate, in space physics. I have been involved with the people who comprise the NASA and ESA communities since I first started studying physics in 1998. I hope that by now I have a fairly good working understanding of how the space industry handles itself. On the basis of that experience, I actually think that "Obama and his commie congress" have probably made the best decision in a tough situation.

If you honestly believe that the basis of this policy decision was the intended removal of the US from manned space exploration for the rest of history then I really don't know what I can tell you. A view that fundamentally biased can't really be argued with.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:17 AM
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I'm with ZenitJerkes here, actually. I see only bad things coming from space exploration. We have a wonderful planet, we can save our planet. Exploring other planets and destroying them as well is just... wrong.

I think going out in the universe is the wrong way to go. Human is greedy in nature. If we DO find other habitable worlds, we WOULD industrialize and destroy them.

There is incredibly much beauty on Earth, so much to explore, to see. We can save this.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:44 PM
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I don't see space exploration as an "go to other worlds because we have messed ours up". I see it as a "go to other worlds having already helped to fix the things we did wrong on our own first".

It is my belief that in order to find habitable worlds and get ships there we will have to have grown up as a species. No more world destruction, pure exploration and learning. It might be a bit Star Trek but it is better than the alternative.

This planet will die one day, unless we can move it out of its orbit and park it around another star as our own gets older. That is the future that I am working towards.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:48 PM
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I'm with PunkMaister here.
Will it do us any good to retreat into a 'we are the only people in the universe' mentality? OF COURSE NOT. If you think so, why not bring back geocentricism and flat-earth-ism while you're at it?
Ironically, without space exploration, we will NEVER find Pandora. If the space program had been ended in the reality that led to Avatar, humans wouldn't be on Pandora, and the Earth would just be a series of radioactive craters.
Eltu, nobody is talking about abandoning Earth, but the truth is, if humanity wants to survive in the long term (talking centuries as a minimum here), then we HAVE to explore space.

I just hope that when he gets kicked out, he gets replaced by someone who actually knows what they're doing. He is doing a lot of good things (e.g. finally giving the USA healthcare...), but calling him a 'commie' is a bit of an extreme reaction (anyway, I'd rather have him than some fundamentalist right wing extreme christian...), but he really doesn't know what he's doing there.
...and people wonder why China is gaining on America... it's because they know what is worth spending money on.

Ah well, maybe if NASA ask nicely they can put some people on Chinese/Russian/ESA missions...
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eltu View Post
I'm with ZenitJerkes here, actually. I see only bad things coming from space exploration. We have a wonderful planet, we can save our planet. Exploring other planets and destroying them as well is just... wrong.

I think going out in the universe is the wrong way to go. Human is greedy in nature. If we DO find other habitable worlds, we WOULD industrialize and destroy them.

There is incredibly much beauty on Earth, so much to explore, to see. We can save this.
WTF? And if there is an Asteroid coming our way how do we save it then, oh let me guess then because it's nature plan we let it happen right? F*ck off really!

And actually no many of the developments thanks to the space program have been beneficial and not the other way around. And is thanks to Space exploration that we understand our own world better and how to save it!

Last edited by Human No More; 04-13-2010 at 03:35 PM. Reason: I know you feel strongly on this (I do too...) but insults add nothing to a debate.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:53 PM
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You are entitled to your opinion, but I think differently.

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And is thanks to Space exploration that we understand our own world better and how to save it!
In my eyes, scientific knowledge does not make us understand the world better in a positive way. Just compare our current civilization to the civilization of the native americans or ancient nature tribes.

Who know/knew the most of the world, scientifically speaking? Us.
Who live/lived happier lives? In my opinion, them.

Breaking down the world into numbers and measurements explains to us that something is what it is - but do these explanations makes us happier? Do we still know *why* we are here, if there is any meaning to our lives? No.

Look at today's society, and look where our strive for scientific knowledge and our ability to use it to benefit our own personal goals. And see where it has led us.
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:08 PM
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Eltu, I agree with you on most things, but here, you're not so right.
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Originally Posted by Eltu View Post
In my eyes, scientific knowledge does not make us understand the world better in a positive way. Just compare our current civilization to the civilization of the native americans or ancient nature tribes.

Who know/knew the most of the world, scientifically speaking? Us.
Who live/lived happier lives? In my opinion, them.
You can't blame society's problems on understanding. If anything, the opposite. There is so much else that IMHO have a FAR bigger effect... Greed, religion and intolerance just to name three. Everything that causes our problems is anti-understanding as I see it.

Quote:
Breaking down the world into numbers and measurements explains to us that something is what it is - but do these explanations makes us happier? Do we still know *why* we are here, if there is any meaning to our lives? No.
I don't NEED a meaning. The meaning is this: Make life what you can. Do what you want. Be happy, be yourself. Just because there's no INHERENT meaning, doesn't mean one can't be found.
Anyway, speak for yourself. Knowing we are not alone in the universe, knowing the scale of everything, it gives me a real sense of wonder, of awe and appreciation that I could never get from any flat-Earth mentality.

Quote:
Look at today's society, and look where our strive for scientific knowledge and our ability to use it to benefit our own personal goals. And see where it has led us.
Personal goals, yes. But imagine for a second if it was done for the good of humanity instead. Look at there we'd be. We could already be on Pandora by now if it was.
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