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  #1  
Old 10-01-2017, 06:30 PM
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Exclamation Will Avatar 2 Be A Failure?

Honestly couldn't think of a better title for this thread (well... other then 'will Avatar 2 be sh*t?).

But here it goes.

As we are well aware, there has been a sudden influx of Avatar 2 News Articles (about time).... And I hate to be *that* guy (and there's a fat chance I'm proven wrong when it finally comes out - if I haven't died of old age by that time) But to honest.... I'm not really *that* over joyed.

Here are my main "gripes"... So far:

- Wain fleet coming back (.....yay So that 5 minute scene of him being turned into an arrow pin cushion was for nothing?)

- Kids..... Because ew. Don't fight me on this before you've seen how The Last Air bender turned out.

- James Cameron's obsession with the tech. Seriously no one is going to buy a 3D T.V, Glasses and upgrade their DVD player just to watch Avatar. It's a nice idea - but only for hardcore fans. Which are few and far between these days.

- Prequel? I hate prequels. Just get on with the rest of the film already.

- Different Writers working on the script. Too many Cooks in the Kitchen? Who knows. It could work.

- RDA (humans) coming back? Though I doubt JC will mindlessly recycle the plot from the first film.... I hope


Anyways, That's all folks. Pretty cynical post, but hey I'm just being honest. If you read the comments on anything Avatar Related you'll find that most people agree with me. No one seems particularly hyped about Avatar 2, Its been too obscure for too long. Everyone watched it, and then forgot about it. I mean for a multi-million pound film that set a box office record and plans to have 4 more sequels - well... lets not get too excited? TOS is the only fan forum for Avatar with "enough" active members to count on 2 hands - pretty disappointing no?

When Avatar 2 *does* come out, I imagine there will be a lot of people pointing out how the first one may have been a fluke, how it left no impact on popular culture etc. Lets hope JC brings more to the table then nice graphics and some new tech which will seldom be used by other film makers.

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  #2  
Old 10-01-2017, 09:54 PM
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first off, the rda will always be the antagonist here, as that greedy conglomerate is a metaphor for what is happening on Mother Earth right now, the oil and lumber industries ransacking this once great planet, at an ever increasing and insatiable rate. there will be 10 BILLION PEOPLE on this planet by 2050, all of them wanting gasoline and toilet paper. we used to worry about 'peak oil', now it's the finite 'peak resources', including fresh water, as humanity destroys this place like termites. smh.

second of all, i like the idea of a prequel, we get to see the early interaction of the Omaticaya and Grace's scientists, the school, Neytiri's sister and obviously a young Neytiri herself. hell yeah i want to see a sequel!

i could do without the retcon bs of having human avatars for colonel coffeecup and his psychotic sidekick, wainbrain. they should stay dead, grrrrrr. all of the rda/secops should be tried for crimes against the Na'vi, brutality and murder in the 1st degree.

i like the idea of kids, it means the clan found a new home, starting having babies and healing, and hopefully a new Hometree. i'm here for more of the Na'vi and their history, culture, traditions, other clans, all things Na'vi. i am not here as some action junkie who needs to see more thuggery, murder, and greedy avarice from the brutes of the rda and their murderous scumbag mercs, hope all the ISVs hit rocks while in hyperflight!

when all is said and done, the Omaticayans will be having teylu in their new Hometree, while the whole of rda/secops burns in hades.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2017, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
- RDA coming back? ...Wainfleet [and Quaritch] coming back?
I am concerned about that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
- Kids..... Because ew. Don't fight me on this before you've seen how The Last Air bender turned out.
What does Avatar have to do with The Last Airfailure, other than confusion due to the source material for the latter having the word "Avatar" in the title??

Lest you need a reminder... Two past Cameron films had children in them and were not in any way the lesser for it.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
- James Cameron's obsession with the tech. Seriously no one is going to buy a 3D T.V, Glasses and upgrade their DVD player just to watch Avatar. It's a nice idea - but only for hardcore fans.
James Cameron has been obsessed with the tech since the mid 1980s. The Abyss, T2, ... All of what I would call Late Cameron (T2, Titanic, Avatar) has had an element of that and/or general monumental scale to the productions.

How does this connect to the availability of 3D monitors? Of course Cameron is going to plug that in the context of Avatar which has always been about immersion. No, you don't have to upgrade your hardware.

Personally the limits of fidelity are awesome... I love what the state of the art can do... but I do so miss the Avatar 35mm prints.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
hardcore fans. Which are few and far between these days.
On the internet, on classical forums, 8 years after a single film was released and some of the forums themselves got torpedoed by outside causes (speaking of AF here).

Avatar fans have never overlapped all too well with the internet crowd, and are often reluctant to talk and have no desire to waste time and energy arguing with trolls and such, but in real life, is another matter.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
- Prequel? I hate prequels. Just get on with the rest of the film already.
Don't be closedminded though. You know, I never wanted to see Avatar when it was released. I had zero idea.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
- Different Writers working on the script. Too many Cooks in the Kitchen? Who knows. It could work.
As far as I know, each guestwriter works on one script, more or less.

Still the guestwriters are my main uncertainty about Avatar going forward. I really, really like how James Cameron writes and I really, really like Avatar 1. What I want to see is a pure continuation of the magnum opus. I fear there will be contamination.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
If you read the comments on anything Avatar Related you'll find that most people agree with me.
DON'T READ THE COMMENT SECTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING TITANIC OR AVATAR!

They are all pure garbage, and so are the people doing the posting. Who would have known the highest grossing film ever would have trolls...

Quote:
Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
No one seems particularly hyped about Avatar 2
Because it is still 3 years from release, perhaps?

"No one" by internet standards was hyped about Avatar either, because it was original and HAD no audience to draw on. What is often referred to revisionistically as being pre-release hype or drummed up by advertisement actually started building when people started watching the film. Same for Titanic.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
Its been too obscure for too long.
It's not at all obscure except in the very distorted viewpoints of basement dwellers. You would know this if you were at Disney where the Pandora expansion opened several months ago. The rope drops and the entire massive crowd stacked up out the front gate charges toward Pandora. Maybe... two people veer off toward the whole rest of the park, which is now an also-ran, because of Avatar.

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Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
When Avatar 2 *does* come out, I imagine there will be a lot of people pointing out how the first one may have been a fluke
Well, they did this for Avatar 1 too. People were predicting that it would be a colossal failure, would never break even, was "such a weird nerd film with no popular appeal whatsoever" and the like. Now that I think of it Titanic was even worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
how it left no impact on popular culture etc.
Again be careful reading comments and internet sentiments. This is a totally empty and inarguable statement that has been made by people with ulterior motives or petty biases. There are zero metrics to support that which are not in some way biased i.e. by relying on media that do not fairly represent Avatar versus other fandoms. There is no direct measure for this and cannot be.

Subjectively speaking: It had far more cultural impact than most other original, one-off sci-fis that are not (yet) a franchise or a EU, that's for sure. Also, Avatar is neither blandly palatable like some comic/superhero flick, nor is it very merchandisable/exploitable by many of the means cited as evidence of cultural impact. (But that doesn't seem to stop Windtraders from selling those shoulder banshees like hotcakes!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by discounthobo159 View Post
Lets hope JC brings more to the table then nice graphics and some new tech which will seldom be used by other film makers.
I am unclear on what the point being made here is. What he's bringing to the table, is more Avatar.

If the rest of the film industry pulls another Post-Avatar Era bandwagon (i.e. the explosion of poor and gimmicky 3D that totally missed Cameron's point and lacked what made 3D in A1 useful and tasteful) with whatever tech Cameron introduces this round... That's fine, and that's on them. Not on Cameron. Their loss. Our gain.

In general I don't see the reason for all the pessimism and all the doubt. What there is to be concerned about, is not whether the sequels will be good, even excellent, or whether they will accomplish the goal of more Pandora. They will. They will, be good Pandora stories, regardless of the very worst case of some BS SecOps character survivals and some difference in writing styles being the standout flaws. Everything else? You're getting dragged into negative energy. It's completely empty. Perspective!

Will the sequels measure up to the original? In the mind of the masses, maybe. Probably even. But that is one hell of a challenge in the mind of someone who truly groks Avatar in the proper sense of the word. It was my doubt and the general sentiment back many years ago when the subject of sequels was first brought up by fans on AF and probably here. When the raw impact of the original was fresh, to even suggest the existence of a worthy successor immediately brought blunt denial, that isn't possible. There is merit in that, in that what is past is past, and the original had a certain elegance and simplicity that will never be again. It's the cinematic version of an old Kansas song. There will never be another Avatar or another first time. There can however be a second.
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2017, 08:12 AM
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I think the reveal of the kids has been slightly poorly handled, while its good they got some exposure, I doubt they are going to be the main POV characters and are instead part of an ensemble cast.

The problem was no other information came out to balance this giving the appearance that avatar 2 is going to be focused around the kids. In general this feels like a lack of PR strategy with info being released to the media (and not via social media) in bits and pieces letting the wrong opinions form.
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Old 10-02-2017, 12:46 PM
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Couldn't be any more of a failure than Avatar was I guess?

JC really needs to reconsider what his 'hook' for the audiences is here, and match the marketing with that.

If this is going to be eight hours of 'Bad industrial company and every 2 dimensional character' along with Col boogyman hassling our Native friends, RIP Cameron, it's been a hell of a ride.
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  #6  
Old 10-03-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by torukmakto4 View Post
what he's bringing to the table, is more Avatar.


Quote of the year! well said!
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2017, 03:17 AM
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I highly doubt it will be a flop. JC wouldn't let that happen.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2017, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja'k Dawsiin View Post


Quote of the year! well said!
I concur!!!! and nope, I don't care about the negetivity, well, the first one is a failure, nobody knows what Avatar is anymore, oh and some silly hate for a certain font, lol it cracks me up tbh. ( never mind the the Park, and this successful cirque show centered on the Na'vi, kicking txìm as we speak. Only time will tell how things will go in the future, but I am stoked and ready to go back to Pandora, Hell Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:09 PM
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Ja'k - I LOVE that Neytiri gif! That's my favorite one so far. The HELL YEAH made my day when you posted that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind12 View Post
nobody knows what Avatar is anymore
What are you even talking about?? You do realize that it is impossible to make a statement of that form without remembering Avatar. Right? If people didn't remember, vocal detractions from this minority of haters and doubters trying to spam this false narrative of non-remembrance everywhere would not have any motive.

Orwellian revisionism is chronic with these worthless non-people wastes of oxygen. Lest we forget or not have been around for it, they predicted the total economic failure of A1, and then edited and deleted their posts like mad trying to not look like fools after they ate a crow feast.

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Originally Posted by Wind12 View Post
( never mind the the Park, and this successful cirque show centered on the Na'vi, kicking txìm as we speak.
And these are key bits of evidence - Pandora at Disney is the biggest piece of Avatar media released since the film 8 years ago and is CONSTANTLY JAMMED FULL. Everywhere you go on disney boards is Pandora hype. Especially Flight of Passage hype, rave reviews and superlative statements of being the best attraction at WDW/anywhere, tactics on how to get fastpasses and deal with the insane wait times. Well-- Flight of Passage pivots entirely on being a fundamental Avatar experience. Without that, it is nothing. It has successfully reached even a lot of people who it didn't click for in 2010 with the original film. It is very much an example of What Happens When People Get Fresh Avatar Content - as well as being a great example of what the Avatar appeal is.

I am taken aback at how some of you here seem to have your guard down and are drifting along with negative energy. Eltu si!
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:03 AM
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I think it's safe to say that with JC's track record it's wise to trust him.
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  #11  
Old 10-07-2017, 05:30 PM
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^ i agree, and to all the haters, crititards, trolls, media puppets, and assorted other negitivity, here's a little something from JC himself...

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Old 10-11-2017, 02:36 AM
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IDK about the haters, I would prefer JC succeed and I like his previous works.
Avatar is just a very straight forward affair, there wasn't much depth to anyone not on the native side on the fence, you didn't really leave thinking or considering things, it was just a straight up this is wrong, this is right, and watch them go at it.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:01 PM
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There is only one side of the fence.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by torukmakto4 View Post
There is only one side of the fence.




Neytiri agrees with you, me, and many other like-minded Avatarians.
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torukmakto4 View Post
Ja'k - I LOVE that Neytiri gif! That's my favorite one so far. The HELL YEAH made my day when you posted that.



What are you even talking about?? You do realize that it is impossible to make a statement of that form without remembering Avatar. Right? If people didn't remember, vocal detractions from this minority of haters and doubters trying to spam this false narrative of non-remembrance everywhere would not have any motive.

Orwellian revisionism is chronic with these worthless non-people wastes of oxygen. Lest we forget or not have been around for it, they predicted the total economic failure of A1, and then edited and deleted their posts like mad trying to not look like fools after they ate a crow feast.

Kehe(no) you missunderstand, I wasn't saying that i believe those "arguments" I was just listing them out as some of the ones I see alot, thats why I listed the facts that counter those arguments after wards and I don't know why this is in the middle of your post instead of at the bottom, but to save me from breaking another tablet, I'm just going to leave it, my apologies.

And these are key bits of evidence - Pandora at Disney is the biggest piece of Avatar media released since the film 8 years ago and is CONSTANTLY JAMMED FULL. Everywhere you go on disney boards is Pandora hype. Especially Flight of Passage hype, rave reviews and superlative statements of being the best attraction at WDW/anywhere, tactics on how to get fastpasses and deal with the insane wait times. Well-- Flight of Passage pivots entirely on being a fundamental Avatar experience. Without that, it is nothing. It has successfully reached even a lot of people who it didn't click for in 2010 with the original film. It is very much an example of What Happens When People Get Fresh Avatar Content - as well as being a great example of what the Avatar appeal is.

I am taken aback at how some of you here seem to have your guard down and are drifting along with negative energy. Eltu si!

Kehe(no) you missunderstand, I wasn't saying that i believe those "arguments" I was just listing them out as some of the ones I see alot, thats why I listed the facts that counter those arguments after wards.
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