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JAvatar2021 03-06-2021 12:52 AM

Sequels too late?
Hi all! I'm new here. I'm sure this has been discussed for ages, but here it goes anew.

We all know that the Avatar franchise has had its endless ups/downs, ebbs/flows, and stops/starts since Avatar set commercial and critical records way back in 2009-10, 3 US presidents, 4 British PMs, and innumerable other newsworthy events. Some reasons for Avatar's troubles: studio ownership changes, competing franchises, James Cameron's unrelenting technological innovations, cast members' scheduling conflicts, seems that there is no discernible determination to the reality of an Avatar sequel ever getting released. I know its supposed to happen way off in December 2022; over 1.5 years from today.

As it happens, it will a be a full 13 years between Avatar & Avatar 2...does anyone realistically think there will be any audience interest in even going to see Avatar 2...or movies period...after such a long hiatus?

Covid19 fundamentally changed our attitudes & practices towards cinemas. So many other movies from 2020 onward, big and small, were indefinitely delayed after most cinemas were shuttered due to covid19 restrictions. Some studios toyed with simultaneously streaming new movies, perhaps with extra fees attached, and limited cinematic releases. IMHO these "hybrid" releases had middling returns at best vs what they would have made in ordinary times.

As such, most studios took wait-and-see approaches, by shelving most of the big tentpoles until covid19 fears and restrictions are lifted. Given all the difficulties, Disney remains committed to the Dec '22, schedule for Avatar 2. I'm personally curious about returning to Pandora and exploring it more; Avatar was such a new thing in 2009. Nevertheless, significant gaps between movies has tempered my interests in some other franchises, particularly sequels...but no so much reboots or spinoffs. I'm afraid Avatar is no exception. In other cases, by the time long promised new entries hit cinemas, my interest in these other franchises was Terminator, Men in Black, Ghostbusters, DC Universe, that I was very slow to embrace them if I had not skipped them entirely. On the other hand, my interests in some long running franchises such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, Jurassic Park, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Pirates of the Caribbean, James Bond, have ebbed and flowed...I might have kept up with them in theaters but more so out of loyalty than genuine excitement...especially after we started getting into 4, 5 sequels, multiple standalones/spinoffs or reboots, a tv series (animated and live-action) or two. Its called saturation or diminishing returns.

After all I said above, at this point, after over a decade of waiting do we really want an Avatar sequel, let alone multiple Avatar sequels? Do most of us have any genuine excitement about the long delayed universe of Pandora?

JAvatar2021 03-06-2021 01:22 AM

FTR, I must admit that sometimes the lengthy gaps between movie entries has tempered my interests in other franchises.
For example. One of my favs of my early teen years was none other than Avatar's own guru James Cameron's 1991 Terminator 2: Judgement Day. A lightyears improvement on his 1984 innovative directorial debut Terminator...JC disowned his late 1970's campy, shlock fest Piranha entry...T2 redefined science-fiction, psychological morality and complex characters into a 2 hour edge-of-your-seat thrill with masterpiece precision. It was only expected that when the overblown dumpster fire that was Terminator 3, Rise of the Machines (2003). The biggest problems about T3: no more Jim C, No Linda Hamilton, a list of ridiculous of previous unused, unneeded, therefore distracting side characters ahem Claire Danes, and most importantly the silly abilities/powers the movie's principle villainess possessed. I guess its impossible to top a truly perfect cinematic baddy like Robert Patrick's T1000.

My point is, I went from being a pubescent, unrefined middle-schooler, to a mellowed postgrad adult between T2 and T3. Like Avatar, those films were over a decade apart, and a lot change for a guy like me in that timeframe. Granted I was already out of my 20's when Avatar was released, but what interests does Avatar still have? So much has happened in the world, that Avatar's conceptual themes regarding business vs nature have become not only politically and culturally divisive that these themes, based on scientific and technological advances, have turned into facts/evidence/knowledge vs anti-"fake news" society.

Empty Glass 03-06-2021 02:18 AM

First of all, welcome to the forums. :gsmile:

So...will there be any audience? I think there will be. I think enough people who were able to see the original in theaters will want to see future outings and not over a streaming service. Hopefully COVID-19 will be more or less gone by the tail end of 2022 and there won't be any other pandemics still keeping theaters empty. Avatar is partly escapism, and I don't see any decline in desire for escapism any time soon.

To me, the real question is how meaningful those sequels will be. Since December 2009, the environmental state of the world has only gotten more and more dire. I - and many others who saw the movie and joined this forum - got a boost of inspiration by the movie to appreciate the natural world more and live a more sustainable life in any way possible. Since then, I've gotten increasingly pessimistic about what impacts my actions can have for good or for bad. I can't speak for others, but I wouldn't be surprised if others were pessimistic too. So when people see the sequel, will they feel the same inspiration that was felt in 2009? Will they feel capable of anything? Or will any messages from the movie feel empty and hollow in a world that seems to decay further and further?

That is what I'm most curious about when December 2022 comes around - barring any unforeseen event preventing me from seeing the movie.

Ja'k Dawsiin 03-06-2021 03:53 PM

very interesting posts, points, and welcome to ToS. :) i'm still very much interested in the sequels, but if they look vastly newer/shinier than the 2009 original, perhaps Weta/LS could produce a more modern version of it. it's like watching the Star Wars prequel trilogy and it is so much newer looking than the somewhat grainy/filmy look of the 1977-83 original films, the disconnect is jarring. i hope we don't experience that with the sequels because of the 13+ year difference.

Eltu 03-07-2021 07:34 PM

It's an interesting subject for sure!

To me personally, I don't necessarily feel excited about the Avatar sequels as much as I feel indifferently curious towards them. It's hard for me to view Avatar as a franchise, as much as a singular experience and inseparable part of my life - and in that way the Avatar sequels will always be very much their own thing and, I think, not really feel like a continuation of the first film emotionally.

I'm still very interested to see how they will turn out - but Avatar to me is only partly about the actual movie and so much about those few years of my life that shaped who I am forever. Seeing more of Pandora I can only imagine will be incredible, but it'll definitely be a different kind of experience compared to what I - and many others - lived through following the first Avatar.

This isn't a bad thing though! I think the Avatar sequels will feel a bit like celebrating an anniversary - a reminder of something truly beautiful that may not feel the same as the original experience but still be memorable and impactful in its own right. :)

Camcam777 04-05-2021 11:52 PM

I hope the sequels do well, its hard like someone said to see this movie as a franchise. I wonder if jake as the main character has the ability to impact people enough to make the franchise successful. We know how successful and iconic the marvel franchise is, and Star Wars. Everyone knows who iron man is, luke sky walker but will people care enough about jake and Neytiri for them to be on the same level as iron man and Luke in terms of like impact and remembrance. I love avatar it’s my favorite movie of all time, but if I found out right now that they canceled all the sequels and they aren’t doing them anymore, I would honestly not be that mad. I think the first movie ended perfectly. Iam excited though to see more of the Pandora world and to see different Navi cultures. I feel like it’s gonna turn into Navi vs Navi wars maybe, but I just hope these movies don’t become repetitive. I feel like avatar 2 is necessary, I feel like avatar 2 will have a solid story hopefully but when I start thinking about a 3rd movie ? It’s like man what would that be about, and then 4th and a 5th film!!??? Also these movies are expensive to make right ? So it’s kinda a gamble in my mind, these movies could be very successful or flop. Just because of the standard avatar has set already for itself being the highest selling movie of all time, plus the movie already gets a lot of hate which i don’t know why, it’s an amazing movie but i just hope they do good. I’m thinking about it in terms of someone who isn’t a fan of avatar. We all love avatar so of course we are gonna go see the movie and most likely enjoy it but when you see it in the Eyes of someone who’s not a fan of the first movie, they don’t really care or they claim that the movie has only "good visuals but a trash story” which a lot of people claim and say which I don’t agree but, will the sequels turn people into fans of the movie, will the sequels make someone fall in love with the main characters(jake, Neytiri etc). Even people who never seen saw the movie before. Also for it to be almost 11 years since the first movie came out, will it all be worth it ?? Do you guys think? I just hope James does a good job on the story, not just for the second one but the third one and maybe the 4th and 5th. Like what direction is he gonna go in? I personally don’t want to see anymore Navi vs humans, I’m hoping they don’t drag that out. I’m hoping they go more in the direction of "bad” Navi, Navi vs Navi/clan vs clan or even Navi vs avatars. That would be cool in my eyes. I have a feeling other Navi clans aren’t gonna like jake because his body isn’t really a real Navi. Maybe even past history between the clans might spark trouble again and war, but I don’t know. What are you guys thoughts ???

Camcam777 04-06-2021 12:01 AM

Avatar is the highest grossing movie of all time but can James do it again ? Not just with visuals but a well put together story for the "franchise”? I personally love avatar and the story and the characters, Neytiri is the best women ever ! But a lot of people hate the story, they say it’s boring and overplayed, it only has good visuals. Of course the storyline had been used before but never in the way avatar has done it, avatar is very unique. I wonder if avatar can turn into a big enough franchise for movies to come out about Navis in the past ? Jake and Neytiri had kids, do y’all think if Neytiri and jake somehow die maybe...can they're kids carry on the story ? And they make more movies about them ? Or maybe a tv series ???you know how like marvel is doing with Loki.

Ja'k Dawsiin 04-11-2021 03:20 PM

it's been 84 years 12 years and i can still smell the fresh flowers blooming outside the fence of Hellsgate...

Wameyn 04-14-2021 12:37 AM


Originally Posted by JAvatar2021 (Post 192468)
After all I said above, at this point, after over a decade of waiting do we really want an Avatar sequel, let alone multiple Avatar sequels? Do most of us have any genuine excitement about the long delayed universe of Pandora?

I can't wait for the sequels. While things died down after the movie, fan groups and sites moved on, some of us really haven't. My life has changed a lot in the last 12 years but my love for Avatar hasn't faded. It took some looking but a lot has happened in the time since the first movie. We have had two comic mini series, the second of which wraps up tomorrow. Toruk The First Flight happened, which impacted me very closely to that of the movie actually. It was amazing in person and also fun to follow online as it traveled the globe. Pandora The World of Avatar opened, mind blowing to experience, plus Flight of Passage is the most insane "ride" I've ever been on, and I loved Na'vi River Journey, hard to been seeing a full size Na'vi in person, and a full sized Avatar in the queue for FOP. There has been lots of Avatar Meets pre Covid where fans are still getting together. I have still only been to the one but we got to visit Lightstorm which was a highlight of my fandom. Just this year was the first Omaticon hosted by the more language centric fan group, Kelutral, which was a digital fan con, again lots of fun to attend. The mobile game Avatar Pandora Rising is out for part of the world, I have yet to be able to play it here in the US but I look forward to its release globally. While we haven't received the sequels yet, or the novels that will accompany them, it hasn't been that hard to find some new Avatar goodness arriving over the years.

I understand the wait has impacted us all differently and I totally get why some in the span of 12 years have moved on, people get married, start a career, pass away, online fandoms die, the sequels have been delayed, a lot, a million different things can and have happened. I did enjoy reading Eltu's take on it though. The new ones will never replicate for some of us exactly how we felt in 2009-2010 because it was lightning in a bottle. Our experiences might be just as good with the sequels, but it will be different, and I'm excited for that roller coaster, and excited to see hopefully past members come back on ToS after so many years because they went to see Avatar 2 and want to see if anyone is ever still around.

While I don't check in here often I always keep an eye on the forum, I know the layout isn't as popular today as it was back in 2009-2010, facebook groups, discord, etc etc seem to be more popular these days, however I'll always prefer a forum to express my fandom on, plus I appreciate that this one has been kept open for so many years.

Ja'k Dawsiin 04-28-2021 05:03 AM

i refuse to move on. :):D:P

Raptor 05-15-2021 07:34 AM

One thing to consider is that there has frankly been a cultural shift since 2009, and filmmaking has to adapt accordingly. After all, the art of filmmaking isn’t stagnant and what resonates today has seen some shift especially given the past four years of chaos. As someone has mentioned earlier, one of the original film’s themes, that of environmentalism, still holds true today, if not even more urgent. For the sake of screenplay, however, I don’t think it would be effective to rehash the same themes repeatedly; I’m not particularly fond of The Force Awakens partly for that reason.

I think it’s also important to recognize that James Cameron isn’t infallible (his praises of Terminator Genisys makes me cringe). With that in mind I’m cautiously following the sequels.

In the 12 years since the film came out, I’ve also developed substantially, from high school student, to an aeronautical engineer and a Marine. Some of my views have stayed the same, others have changed, as I am willing to adjust my beliefs when presented with sufficient and compelling evidence.

Ja'k Dawsiin 05-20-2021 05:46 AM

from the official Avatar twitter

Wind12 07-01-2021 03:04 AM

I'm still as excited as ever for the sequels, it's true that the world has been changing and is as crazy as ever, but good storytelling, limit pushing world building and effects, and the passion and hard work imo will still stand the test of time, as Wameyn stated there have been things for the fans, and the new game with the snowdrop engine seems like it will be a trip.

ProfoundHeart 07-03-2021 02:57 PM

Avatar opened something in me as a boy. Twelve years or twelve more — the debt is forever.

Eltu 07-03-2021 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by ProfoundHeart (Post 192595)
Avatar opened something in me as a boy. Twelve years or twelve more the debt is forever.

Happy to see you are still around, ProfoundHeart! Here's to another twelve years :)

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