Is Avatar anti-Human as in it promotes hates against mankind as a whole?

[PunkMaister]

I would say no way, but that sadly a lot of people have taken this to be the core message none the less.

[ZenitYerkes]

Well it promotes hate against the dark side of humanity. Greed, lack of caring about the environment and the people, selfishness,...

[PunkMaister]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

Well it promotes hate against the dark side of humanity. Greed, lack of caring about the environment and the people, selfishness,...

Right, let's cut down the BS. What you are truly referring too is Capitalism and Libertarianism which you and all Socialists/Marxists see as the reason for all the world ills.

[Woodsprite]

It's against mercenaries. Hell, most of the main characters were humans, and we always rooted for them.

"It's anti-American" is what really got my goat. An American corporation happened to be in charge (what a surprise, America possesses many of the large corporations today). Are all corporations bad? Absolutely not. And guess what? Even Selfridge was vehemently against the bombing of the tree of souls and the whole war that ensued, and never really wanted any of the natives to die (deleted scenes reveal this). How some people can say his character was "one-dimensional", I don't have the slightest.

Quaritch is the bad guy. The mercenaries are the bad guys.

The RDA as a whole, working on Pandora, is not technically "bad" because most of the workers were just doing what they were told, and Selfridge was following orders. None of the workers were out to kill the natives. Then when the going went tough, Selfridge backed off. Not with the destruction Hometree, unfortunately, but afterward he regretted what he had done and wanted to back down. But Quaritch took control.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by PunkMaister

Right, let's cut down the BS. What you are truly referring too is Capitalism and Libertarianism which you and all Socialists/Marxists see as the reason for all the world ills.

I don't think he was trying to infer that.

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

I don't think he was trying to infer that.

He wasn't. PunkMaister likes making little posts/set-ups like this just to try and insult people. He/she takes any opportunity possible to call someone a Marxist.

I think PunkMaister's real name is Joseph McCarthy.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

He wasn't. PunkMaister likes making little posts/set-ups like this just to try and insult people. He/she takes any opportunity possible to call someone a Marxist.

I think PunkMaister's real name is Joseph McCarthy.

Er... McCarthy actually turned out to be in the right the entire time after archives were dug up, but that's another debate...

I'm pro-McCarthy.

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Er... McCarthy actually turned out to be in the right the entire time after archives were dug up, but that's another debate...

I'm pro-McCarthy.

If your refering to transcripts and decoded Soviet messages, most scholars consider that revitionist history.

All signs pointed to him being wrong. From the Wheeling speech forward he kept pulling numbers out of his a**. Some days his little piece of paper had 57 names, and other days 205. He was never able to prove, without reasonable doubt, that anyone was a Communist. Anyone that disagreed with, he simply pointed his finger at them and said "commie." People didn't try to stop him because they were really Communists, they were afraid of being insinuated and having their careers ruined. His whole witch hunt was just a ploy to stay in office. He was a nobody setting up to lose his seat, it was the perfect scheme to stay in office.

Just wondering, what's your stance on corporate personhood? Do you believe the RDA should be given the same Constitutional rights as human individuals?

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

If your refering to transcripts and decoded Soviet messages, most scholars consider that revitionist history.

I dunno... if you've read the reports I have you'd start considering things. Plus, commies in the government isn't exactly a good thing, as you can see what's happening now in the U.S.

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

Just wondering, what's your stance on corporate personhood? Do you believe the RDA should be given the same Constitutional rights as human individuals?

A corporation is a body controlled by shareholders; I don't believe it can be considered a person (I know what you mean). Everyone in the U.S. deserves their rights from the Constitution. But the Constitution dictates the basics on the rights of what the government can and cannot do. The rights of the people are given by God, which is what the founders taught (and is in the Constitution). If rights came from the state, we'd be totalitarian. Corporations are many times good. Sometimes bad...

But the RDA was largely a morally-bent example of a down-the-drain power-hungry corporate monster. The only corporation like the RDA that exists today is Monsanto.

[Pa'li Makto]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

It's against mercenaries. Hell, most of the main characters were humans, and we always rooted for them.

"It's anti-American" is what really got my goat. An American corporation happened to be in charge (what a surprise, America possesses many of the large corporations today). Are all corporations bad? Absolutely not. And guess what? Even Selfridge was vehemently against the bombing of the tree of souls and the whole war that ensued, and never really wanted any of the natives to die (deleted scenes reveal this). How some people can say his character was "one-dimensional", I don't have the slightest.

Quaritch is the bad guy. The mercenaries are the bad guys.

The RDA as a whole, working on Pandora, is not technically "bad" because most of the workers were just doing what they were told, and Selfridge was following orders. None of the workers were out to kill the natives. Then when the going went tough, Selfridge backed off. Not with the destruction Hometree, unfortunately, but afterward he regretted what he had done and wanted to back down. But Quaritch took control.

EDIT:


I don't think he was trying to infer that.

Hey let's not forget the RDA shareholders back on earth..they helped to create a hasty decision by a confused Selfridge. (Not to defend him though)

I can't help agreeing with ZenitYerkes though. I think Avatar forces us to take a long hard look at ourselves as a species and consider what actions/traits we need to have and what we don't.
Greed is one of them, envy is another..They exist despite any economical situation so capitalism/socialism shouldn't be emphasised..
I think Avatar shows humans what they should aspire to be. Not by completely copying the Na'vi but by learning how to care for each other and lead as much of a noble life as humanly possible.
The Na'vi make mistakes, look at Tsu'Tey and his envy of Jake. Cameron doesn't attack only the humans..He shows us what we should change.

Personally I don't think anyone has the right to tell us how to be and how to act. We need to take the initiative ourselves.

[Sight Unseen]

Originally Posted by PunkMaister

Right, let's cut down the BS. What you are truly referring too is Capitalism and Libertarianism which you and all Socialists/Marxists see as the reason for all the world ills.

Any type of government hinges upon the ruler(s) not having a personal agenda or being in any way partisan. Unfortunately, there is no perfect government, because there is always some blind person out there to screw you and destabilize the government for their own interests.

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

It's against mercenaries. Hell, most of the main characters were humans, and we always rooted for them.

"It's anti-American" is what really got my goat. An American corporation happened to be in charge (what a surprise, America possesses many of the large corporations today). Are all corporations bad? Absolutely not. And guess what? Even Selfridge was vehemently against the bombing of the tree of souls and the whole war that ensued, and never really wanted any of the natives to die (deleted scenes reveal this). How some people can say his character was "one-dimensional", I don't have the slightest.

I believe Selfridge always took the side of profits and least risk. The only reason he didn't want the natives to die was that he might get caught, and the ensuing bad press.

Oh, and let's not forget. The RDA is it's own entity. It has enough weight to throw around to silence any opposition from any government, and it's global. It's basically a government of it's own that controls 90% of the planet Earth, with a sole mission of blind and reckless profit, whatever the cost. The RDA isn't American alone, maybe a morbid offshoot of American capitalism gone wrong, but global nonetheless. It is representative of the human race as a whole.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Sight Unseen

It is representative of the human race as a whole.

See, I don't believe that. A corporation is one thing. The human race is quite another. To assume the RDA is all of what the world is and has become is assuming way too much.

Did the individuals of earth make it the way it was? I don't believe so; I think (in the movie's reality) it was from the overall careless nature of an overpowering government system that united the world. It made some terrible decisions, and thus ruined everything. The RDA is just the offspring. The RDA is made up of workers willing to work. Many of them probably have families to feed back on earth. Some are there for science research, some have come probably to advance their resumes in the business field to get higher positions in society, and some have come just to have a job.

The mercenaries are only there because of the hostile environment. If there wasn't any threat, there'd be no need for the defenses. My point is we shouldn't judge all of humanity on one corporation that's happened to gain a lot of power. That's like taking a select number of hillbilly hicks from Texas and claiming, "See? This is what Texas is like."

[Sight Unseen]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

That's like taking a select number of hillbilly hicks from Texas and claiming, "See? This is what Texas is like."

I see your point. That's not what I meant. I guess I'm trying to say that the RDA is an embodiment of our carelessness, lack of concern for others, and mistrust.

Ya'll calling me a hick? I'm from Texas. I don't live in a trailer park, or on a farm. I'm just an average person living in the USA suburbs. We all do kind of have teh accent though (my English teacher says ya'll ), although I try not to.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Sight Unseen

I see your point. That's not what I meant. I guess I'm trying to say that the RDA is an embodiment of our carelessness, lack of concern for others, and mistrust.

So in other words, you're saying the RDA is essentially the bad part of humanity? In this case I agree.

Originally Posted by Sight Unseen

Ya'll calling me a hick? I'm from Texas. I don't live in a trailer park, or on a farm. I'm just an average person living in the USA suburbs. We all do kind of have teh accent though (my English teacher says ya'll ), although I try not to.

Nah, we're fellows, 'cause I'm also from Texas. Although I've lived here all my life I don't really sound Texan at all, more Californian-like; I even pronounce the "th" in "clothes".

[Human No More]

I'd say no. Many humans, yes, are idiots like Quaritch or Selfridge or Wainfleet, but then there is Grace, Norm, Max, Trudy...

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Human No More

I'd say no. Many humans, yes, are idiots like Quaritch or Selfridge or Wainfleet, but then there is Grace, Norm, Max, Trudy...

...And Jake?