Tsahaylu, reproduction, sex and pleasure

[Human No More]

Interesting discussion on IRC thanks to Eltu. We know that tsahaylu gives two Na'vi a really deep, unparalleled connection to each other, and is also a pleasurable experience. We also know Na'vi reproduce similarly to humans, although it is most likely that sex in itself would be pleasurable too.

The question is, would the Na'vi have sex simply for pleasure or not? This could be if they aren't mated with anyone, or even if they were. Obviously, there's the chance of pregnancy, but they could always use some form of contraception, or another theory was that there could be a biological element that only make reproduction possible with their partner they have made tsahaylu with.
Since the Na'vi lack many of the human taboos (e.g. wearing far less clothes than most humans), I'd doubt they would see sex purely for pleasure as wrong, and they would appreciate that people have basic needs, particularly since it's mentioned in the survival guide that choosing a mate can take years. On the other hand, when they've mated for life with someone, I'd see this as being less likely.

[Lyra]

Personally, I imagine that it would be the same as it is for humans. if you saw your lover kissing, hugging and having sex with someone wouldn't you be annoyed? Sure, you have tsahaylu, but it's still the same in a sense... We have sex, but you dont want your lover kissing another man/woman...

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Lyra

Personally, I imagine that it would be the same as it is for humans. if you saw your lover kissing, hugging and having sex with someone wouldn't you be annoyed? Sure, you have tsahaylu, but it's still the same in a sense... We have sex, but you dont want your lover kissing another man/woman...

That's why I said I doubt it after they are mated for life with someone, but before, I don't see any real problem.

[Stanley_9875]

I believe they only have physical sex with their lifemate, as that is also another way for deep connection, but not as deep as a tsahaylu. A tsahaylu with your lifemate is the ultimate intimacy. They probably have the same sexual desire as the rest of us humans.

[EywaBlessMe]

I hate to piont out the obvious, but all Na'vi and avatars have navels; I mean, in the tank, you can see the umbilical attached to the avatars, so there must be sexual reproduction, mammalian style

[Devourment]

Originally Posted by EywaBlessMe

I hate to piont out the obvious, but all Na'vi and avatars have navels; I mean, in the tank, you can see the umbilical attached to the avatars, so there must be sexual reproduction, mammalian style

Yeah, JC confirmed they have human-like "parts."

[Woodsprite]

I guess mating and tsahaylu are both inherent to each other. When the couple is mated, they don't necessarily have sex. When they do, however, they probably make tsahaylu again simultaneously with the sex. Think about it: two na'vi knowing exactly what the other one wants while copulating at the same time? It's basically twice the awesome.

That's my take.

[Stanley_9875]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

I guess mating and tsahaylu are both inherent to each other. When the couple is mated, they don't necessarily have sex. When they do, however, they probably make tsahaylu again simultaneously with the sex. Think about it: two na'vi knowing exactly what the other one wants while copulating at the same time? It's basically twice the awesome.

That's my take.

I agree... also to just deeply think about these words... the ultimate intimacy... how incredible. Just the words gives me chills as I try to imagine the deepest connection the one has for the other. They each want each other, and when they can truly feel each others deepest feelings for each other, it makes them love each other even more. How incredible. What I would give for just one tsahaylu with a Na'vi who truly loves me

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Stanley_9875

I agree... also to just deeply think about these words... the ultimate intimacy... how incredible. Just the words gives me chills as I try to imagine the deepest connection the one has for the other. They each want each other, and when they can truly feel each others deepest feelings for each other, it makes them love each other even more. How incredible. What I would give for just one tsahaylu with a Na'vi who truly loves me

Exactly... It's one of the things I really want most... I guess we just can't even imagine exactly how it would feel, it would truly be the best experience... To really know someone like that, to be so deeply connected...

[caveman]

I actually get the sense that they don't have sex a lot, or aren't supposed to. At least for pre-mated-for life-people. I think so because
1) They don't wear a lot of clothing. This makes me think they are mature to sexual desire. Like nudist for example, are (probably) at the point where they can look at people's parts and not want sex.
2) They seem very spiritual, and I get the feeling that all is sacred. Everything is sacred, including sex. Kinda like if you read about sex in passages from the bible or any holy text. It's not supposed to be done without true love (mated for life). Or at least thats what the parents tell their kids, but who knows what they really do.

I find the na'vi to be humans who follow the morals of a collection of real-life religions/philosophies. Like buddhism, and animismn and a lot of other isms. Everything they believe in is borrowed from a real religion, so I get the sense that holds true with sex. Most religions frown on pre maritial sex. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen anyway.

[CyanRachel]

Originally Posted by Stanley_9875

I agree... also to just deeply think about these words... the ultimate intimacy... how incredible. Just the words gives me chills as I try to imagine the deepest connection the one has for the other. They each want each other, and when they can truly feel each others deepest feelings for each other, it makes them love each other even more. How incredible. What I would give for just one tsahaylu with a Na'vi who truly loves me

All my thoughts exactly! Ditto!

[Rainbowhawk1993]

Originally Posted by Stanley_9875

I agree... also to just deeply think about these words... the ultimate intimacy... how incredible. Just the words gives me chills as I try to imagine the deepest connection the one has for the other. They each want each other, and when they can truly feel each others deepest feelings for each other, it makes them love each other even more. How incredible.

That's me as well, the deep emotion created when the na'vi couple are embrasing eachother. Makes me feel very emotional almost to the point of depression. I could say many things but I Just can't find the words to discribe it.

[Sight Unseen]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

But why? Isn't it up to the two people involved to decide their own commitment and such? For two willing individuals, sex is between them, and it's not really anyone else's concern. If they want it to be meaningless, it's their choice, as is treating it as a more emotional connection.

Exactly. I believe that for the Na'vi, casual sex is a choice. There are some that have sex just for pleasure, and others pursuing a more long term relationship. I don't see a problem with casual sex, especially among enlightened people, as long as its clear exactly what it means to each person, they both want each other for a night, and understand one another as a person.

However, I would think that tsahaylu is reserved for your true love, and once that has happened, you wouldn't want sex with anyone else anyway, because that person you are mated to becomes part of you. Having a deep understanding with someone, becoming one with someone, you don't need anyone else. That's the inherent beauty of tsahaylu. Intimacy to the point of becoming one, nothing needs explaining, no fights, grudges, distrust. Just beautiful, complete understanding, happiness, and love for everything partner is, mentally and physically.

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

I guess mating and tsahaylu are both inherent to each other. When the couple is mated, they don't necessarily have sex. When they do, however, they probably make tsahaylu again simultaneously with the sex. Think about it: two na'vi knowing exactly what the other one wants while copulating at the same time? It's basically twice the awesome.
That's my take.

Twice as awesome indeed. Wouldn't that be great?

[Devourment]

Originally Posted by Human No More

The question is, would the Na'vi have sex simply for pleasure or not? This could be if they aren't mated with anyone, or even if they were. Obviously, there's the chance of pregnancy, but they could always use some form of contraception...

I'm sure they'd have sex for pleasure, especially because tsahaylu is pretty damn pleasurable, however I doubt(don't ask me why, I don't know) that they'd do the deed with anyone they weren't mated with, maybe because it makes it that much more special(we don't know enough about Na'vi culture at this point to say if they view sex as sacred -but not taboo-).

Originally Posted by Human No More

I'd doubt they would see sex purely for pleasure as wrong, and they would appreciate that people have basic needs, particularly since it's mentioned in the survival guide that choosing a mate can take years. On the other hand, when they've mated for life with someone, I'd see this as being less likely.

Once they're mated to someone, they would never want to have sex(w/o tsahaylu ofc) with anyone other than their mate(assuming this is what you're implying) because being mated is like love on roids. Again pre-mated we really don't know enough about Na'vi culture, for all we know Na'vi females can control when they're fertile.

TL;DR: We don't know enough about that side of the Na'vi culture, but my guess is that they don't do it until they're mated.

[Aquaplant]

I think any species sufficiently "intelligent" in the way, that they are able to realize sex can be used for more than just reproduction, would want to do so. Seeing as the pleasure is there as an evolutionary carrot to make them want to do it in the first place.

But as far as Na'vi are concerned, there simply isn't enough information to give out proper judgment on the matter.