Immortality.

[Banefull]

Something that my mind has been grappling with recently is the issue of immortality. Medical technology is ever advancing and it is a real possibility that soon there will be "a last generation to die". But is it wrong for humanity to achieve immortality? If humans became immortal, then childbearing would have to be outlawed. The Earth can only support a certain amount of human beings at a given time. Each successive generation would add continual growth unless it was restricted. If we became immortal, are we denying future generations the right to live? Is immortality immoral as a result?

This is something I seek the answer to.

[Advent]

I'td be good if we reduced reproduction, and just lived maybe 80 years max longer.

But I think this is a good time to say:

IMMORTALITY SUCKS

[Grifff]

Originally Posted by Advent

I'td be good if we reduced reproduction, and just lived maybe 80 years max longer.

But I think this is a good time to say:

IMMORTALITY SUCKS

unless you have no one to spend it with,

plus if lets say the entire human race becomes immortal through medicin, we could colonise the stars

[Isard]

Immortality only sucks if you have limited imagination.

[Neytiri.]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Immortality only sucks if you have limited imagination.

Exactly, I would do so much! It would be amazing, Immortality would RULE!

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Layzie

This is similar to things that have been said already. But I'd still like to know if it's considered immortaliy. You may be entering a clone or some other type of new body but with the same mind you have lived your life with, but is it the same as immortality? To me it seems like a "when I die, I'll just transfer to a new body" type of thing.

Biological immortality is what I was referring to. I know this becomes a matter of definition but you should search biological immortality and you'll know what I was referring to. The way I see it is, as along as you can maintain your original consciousness then you'll be immortal.

Originally Posted by Layzie

I'll use electronics that run on batteries for example. The electronic device represents your mind/thoughts/memories ect. And the batteries represent the new body you transfer into after you die or before you die. You have the electronic, and when the batteries die, you change them, and you keep using the electronic, and change the batteries again once they die again.

I see what you mean but I don't intend on becoming a machine. But this is perhaps analogous of what process will be undertaken with my organic body.

Originally Posted by Layzie

When I think of immortality, I think of you and your entity as a whole living forever. Not to say this thought is necessarily correct, but still.

It's impossible to live forever using this logic.

Originally Posted by Layzie

I just used the serial killer thing as an example. And I still stand by this kinda. Being heavily gaurded and protected doesn't equal immortality. Being able to live through a situation like that equals immortality.

Well forget the guards. In essence if someone tried to kill me specifically then it probably could be done. But it would require the application of many resources. I would limit my exposure to society. If I was cornered somehow then the adversaries would have to outnumber me considerably in order to overcome my superior modified body. If they got this far then they probably would have been expecting this and would be prepared. I may die. But why would anyone go to such lengths for nothing?

Originally Posted by Layzie

You mentioned wounds repairing themselves instantaneously, can you explain this. In your first post in this thread, you explained how you want to try to make yourself immortal, can you also do the same for this? I'd like to know what you have planned for making wounds heal themselves.

This technology is a long way off. But I'm not placing my future in biology for nothing. Nanobots, programmed cells..... I don't wish to speculate further with my limited knowledge of the concepts at present.

Originally Posted by Layzie

I know I said being able to live through that means immortality, in fact, what you're saying even crossed my mind before posting it. The Illusive Man was immortal, he would obviously have to be wealthy, meaning he would have protection hired. He said this about himself being immortal and made sound like it would be impossible for him to be killed because he will be heavily guarded. I just continued the topic of him being wealthy, immortal,and protected, by saying, it's not the protection that makes you immortal, it's the ability to live through it that does. Because if he is heavily guarded, but could be killed if he wasn't guarded, it would mean he isn't immortal, just safe from dangerous people. I hope you get what I mean..

That would reduce my chance of being killed but it has nothing to do with biological immortality. It's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Layzie

Definaty. Being immortal might get depressing, especially for that length would probably get depressing.

If you envisage a contemporary life, then yes. Immortality would be a life of observation, adventure and change.

Originally Posted by Human No More

It's theoretically possible with nanotechnology, or genetic engineering massively accelerating the pace of healing (which would need a corresponding metabolic increase), but both are very far off.

Far off? Using current models of prediction yes. If humanity manages to exponentially advance technology then perhaps not.

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan

Just to add my opinion,

Immortality, or even just using machines of any kind to extend my life beyond it's natural length is literally one of the worst thoughts imaginable to me personally. I would (literally speaking) rather die.

I have no desire to live and watch society crumble, people mercilessly destroy the planet or to see the human race, (Which ironically, if we became machines, is exactly what we wouldn't be) spread itself and all of it's ills across the universe. I'd much rather just take this one life and live it out as best I can. When it comes to the endpoint, there would be a great sense of satisfaction that I had lived out what I was supposed to - no more, no less - and that I could now go free, to wherever I may go.

Call me a luddite, call me paranoid, call me just downright foolish, but i'd rather preserve and advance what the human race is naturally, not through a digital snapshot of what it once was.

I call you neither of those things, merely cynical. Humanity will move beyond such ills, I'll do everything I can to make that a reality.

Originally Posted by Human No More

I wouldn't even WANT any afterlife. Anything would just be the same after a few millennia and you'd do anything for something new. Eventually, you'd literally exhaust every single possibility.
I'd live on Pandora, but everyone dies in the end and I'd never cheat that.

As for immortality, I've said before, I agree with Fkeu'itan... as I wrote once before about why I wouldn't want immortality:
You'd have everyone you loved or cared about die on you various times over, then eventually witness the extinction of humanity and be alone forever (or until the destruction of Earth makes you drift off into space, then with a lot of luck maybe you'll end up on an inhabited planet in a few million years, or maybe have to wait a few million for life to develop first, then assuming you're even accepted there (some alien who was there since the dawn of civilisation?), have the whole thing happen AGAIN on you until the heat death of the universe, and even then, you'd just be floating, alone in a void.

You find a companion with similar desires as you and grant them biological immortality, grow into the ages together. Young, yet old.

Originally Posted by Fosus

I don't think it will ever be possible to be immortal, and I don't want to be immortal. But playing with the thought...

In case I still get older but just cannot die, in the end I cannot see, hear or move anymore. Awesome.

That's complete invulnerability. I'm talking about biological immortality, death is still a very real possibility, just not through aging.

Originally Posted by Neytiri.

Exactly, I would do so much! It would be amazing, Immortality would RULE!

That's the spirit of humanity right there.

Originally Posted by Layzie

I don't know, I don't think my imagination is limited. I just see a lot of downfalls with being immortal. If people close to you aren't immortal either, then you have to live to see each one of them die. If you're immortal you'll never die, and they say that the universe will eventually die. What happens after the universe dies and everything in space is dead (and/or doesn't exist anymore), then what happens to you? You will still be alive since you are immortal.

The rebuttals above should help.

[Advent]

5 Reasons Immortality Would be Worse than Death | Cracked.com

Read this.

[txen]

Immortality isn't going to be happening any time soon. There are many reasons why. Most of the life expectancy increases have been due to the great strides in infant mortality. Those who die very young drag the average down a lot. If you base life expectancy with the starting point being age 40, then the advances have not been all that good. I think the extension has been only about ten years since the beginning of modern medicine.

Besides there are still accidents. I'm not some crazy base jumper or anything, but my current recreational activities carry a certain amount of risk. Even if I were immortal from a disease perspective, the law of averages say I would eventually encounter an unfavorable set of circumstances.

[Isard]

5. Watching humanity evolve as an outsider? Awesome. I have incredible curiosity, I want to watch species rise and fall.

4. First off, being considered a god would be amazing. Secondly, I'm immortal, there is no reason for me to stay anywhere, there are 2 billion people on this planet, I could roam for a whole generations worth and never be seen by the same person twice.

3. Got me there, for now. Human expansion slots are moving right along though...

2. Cancels out 1

1. Cancelled out by two, time speeds up, I just have to wait. Something will happen eventually.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Secondly, I'm immortal, there is no reason for me to stay anywhere, there are 2 billion people on this planet, I could roam for a whole generations worth and never be seen by the same person twice.

6.8 billion actually.

[Isard]

Even better.

[Layzie]

We ARE advancing more and more every year, but I doubt immortality will ever be accomplished. Even if they found a way for people to maintain perfect health, how will somebody like a murder victim able to live? What happens if a person is mutilated and gets their head cut off or something? I don't think there is any possible way for people to find ways to live through that.

But even if they did manage to find a way through all this, the rest of my post will be in regards to the rest of yours after the part about humanity advancing.

To answer your questions, is immortality denying the next generation the right to live, and is it immoral? I'd have to say no to both. If you think about it, it might seem like it is, but I say no because say we find a way to become imortal, we are doing it to help ourselves. Not to keep the next generation from living. If that, or some other negative action was the purpose for becoming immortal, THEN I think it would be immoral and denying them the right to live. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.


And I know it's really off topic, but I miss watching Avatar too, and also haven't been able to watch it in a while.

[Spock]

Immortality? I'm glad this came up, I've been doing some quite extensive research into the topic. I believe I have found a way to become immortal by extending telomeres using the enzyme telomerase. There are a few more problems I have to work on though. I also plan to replace my skeleton with either titanium, carbon nanotubes or buckybolts. It would also be logical to implant myself with a system whereby my body regenerates trauma and disease damage at an accelerated rate. I'll make it happen.

Of course I plan to give the technology to no-one, it's far too risky. I intend to be around for thousands of years to come and no-one is going to stop me. This might sound like a joke but I have subtle plans in place already. I will also be limiting my involvement in society as much as possible when my normal lifetime runs out. In a few hundred years I plan to live like this:



Brilliant game by the way. It's not so far away.

[Layzie]

Originally Posted by Ba'al

Immortality? I'm glad this came up, I've been doing some quite extensive research into the topic. I believe I have found a way to become immortal by extending telomeres using the enzyme telomerase. There are a few more problems I have to work on though. I also plan to replace my skeleton with either titanium, carbon nanotubes or buckybolts. It would also be logical to implant myself with a system whereby my body regenerates trauma and disease damage at an accelerated rate. I'll make it happen.

Of course I plan to give the technology to no-one, it's far too risky. I intend to be around for thousands of years to come and no-one is going to stop me. This might sound like a joke but I have subtle plans in place already. I will also be limiting my involvement in society as much as possible when my normal lifetime runs out. In a few hundred years I plan to live like this:



Brilliant game by the way. It's not so far away.

It's not that easy. I don't see how anybody could replace their skeleton. Even if they did it piece at a time, how are you going to replace your skull? There is just so much will probably happen differently than it is said. Even if this does manage to work, you can replace anything you'd like, you could still be subject to death. Health-wise, you may survive. But health issues isn't the only thing that causes death.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Layzie

It's not that easy. I don't see how anybody could replace their skeleton. Even if they did it piece at a time, how are you going to replace your skull? There is just so much will probably happen differently than it is said. Even if this does manage to work, you can replace anything you'd like, you could still be subject to death. Health-wise, you may survive. But health issues isn't the only thing that causes death.

Yes, it's called Trauma and Disease. I have circumvented sensence or 'aging' with my method. But I believe I can dramatically lower the chances of dieing from either Trauma or Disease, especially disease. You just have to have an open mind, be brilliant.