Why Cameron Failed.

[joeylovesgaia]

Reposting this.

People were rooting for the RDA. Not everyone, but many. If Cameron meant this story as more than entertainment (and he clearly did), if he meant to change people's minds with this, then he screwed up. What looks evil to a liberal looks justifiable, even honorable, to a conservative. And with the scene in SE showing that the attack on Hometree was provoked, well...civilian targets have been bombed before, and the casualties accepted as a cost of war.

Now to anyone who was following the Na'vi, sympathizing with the Na'vi, the loss of Hometree is felt as a holocaust, a horror. But to boys who idolized Quaritch, loved all the cool hardware, and felt bored (and maybe grossed out) by this "unity of people and nature" thing, it was a victorious battle.

James, you failed. You should have made Quaritch, Selfridge, and the RDA more of a clear villain if you wanted to convert people. You should have screen-tested this movie to conservatives, and tweaked it until they agreed that the RDA was in the wrong. You should have shown the true horrors that empires inflict on the innocent. Slavery and rape, even macho hardasses understand that these are wrong.

[Elyannia]

.............

Adding things like slavery and rape would have made the movie rated R which then the movie wouldn't have been able to reach a broader audience.

I don't think for a second that James Cameron failed.

[Neytiri.]

Originally Posted by Elyannia

.............

Adding things like slavery and rape would have made the movie rated R which then the movie wouldn't have been able to reach a broader audience.

I don't think for a second that James Cameron failed.

Slavery and rape would have been to much, this isn't Schindler's list.

I think Cameron did an excellent job with the movie.

[Layzie]

He did a great job if you ask me. Plus, I doubt his intentions on creating Avatar were to create a story in which you hate the villian(s).

I disagree with the statement about how he should have added more conflict and you listed slavery and rape as examples. Even if I wasn't against this idea, how would you go about creating a scene or even just a story about a human raping a Na'vi? Like physically, I doubt that would work very well.

[LOVEavatar]

Well if all that content would've been shown... Avatar age limit increased lot?

Not that I have absolutely any problem with gore/violence in movies... but IMO, it suits only for certain types of films. And Avatar, an epic story... well, for me... it wouldn't fit. Wouldn't be the same tbh

Edit:

I don't think for a second that James Cameron failed.

Agrees

Also, the main message JC was looking for with Avatar was obviously the environmental destruction and disrespect we have on our planet. THAT, he definitely succeeded with

[Vauktu]

Avatar wouldn't have been such a huge box office success if Cameron failed to have audiences grow hatred towards the humans near the end of the movie.

Do you know why some people fell into depression? Because Avatar showed how much of a perfect life the Na'vi have, and just how terrible humans treat the environment and each other.

I remember a time where I was sitting in the theater, and right as Quaritch was shot in the chest with Neytiri's arrow, the audience cheered and clapped. That says something, doesn't it?

[Banefull]

I for one applaud Cameron for not making the movie so black and white. To everything, there is more to learn and another side. I highly sympathized with the Navi but saw the common grunt within the RDA as misguided, not evil. They were doing what their superiors told them. It adds to the intricacy of the story rather than detracting from it. If anything it is more reflective of what goes on in the real world. Evil does not usually come out in the open, it hides behind false justification. Some outside force is not going to stop us, we have to overcome ourselves.

[Elyannia]

Plus if you watch the extended version, Selfridge isn't as bad as we think he is. Quaritch was the main villian in Avatar.

[caveman]

One of the big criticisms of the movie was actually it being too black and white. I found that acceptable considering it was a sci-fi movie. Sci-Fi's often have extreme contrasts, which is done on purpose to make a point on where society is heading. And I don't think its fair to say Conservatives enjoyed the horrific parts of the movie. But that beats me, I'm fairly liberal.

[ZenitYerkes]

If he failed, then why are we here?

Art is subjective, the message depends on who watches it -in spite of what the author meant. Even if JC wanted it to look like an "interruption of free trade" tale, we still hold the meaning we give to the movie true.

[Neytiri.]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

If he failed, then why are we here?

Art is subjective, the message depends on who watches it -in spite of what the author meant. Even if JC wanted it to look like an "interruption of free trade" tale, we still hold the meaning we give to the movie true.

Agree'd, It all depends on how you interpreted it, I doubt it "failed" though, Due to the billions of dollars it made and all the ridiculously dedicated fans you can find all over the internet...

[Nulkrr'zo]

i tended to be pretty dang conversative on most fiscal and social issues before seeing this movie, and after it, I am definitely libertarian and liberal on social issues now.....soo in that regard Cameron definitely succeeded!

[rapunzel77]

I don't think he failed. Most people saw it to be entertained and it succeeded because we have a conversation going about all the themes in the movie and what the messages are. In fact, some of the messages in Avatar, like with any book or movie, may not be what the original writer/director, etc intended. Many people dismissed Avatar for being too simplistic and black/white which we know isn't true. I don't think that Cameron or anyone else can expect people to change over night but if it brings up thought provoking issues that people can actually talk about then he did his job.

I am a conservative on social issues and liberal on some political issues but after seeing Avatar, it got me thinking and pondering about various issues related to the environment, etc. Good art should make one think and allow for conversation. I feel that the "conservative" response was sad. They readily dismissed it without truly watching it. I think it could be due to some of the cringe worthy lines. I love Avatar but there are a few clunky lines that can take someone out of the movie and into the current political situation. That may be why some people were upset and dismissive of the movie.

[Rainbowhawk1993]

Originally Posted by rapunzel77

I don't think he failed. Most people saw it to be entertained and it succeeded because we have a conversation going about all the themes in the movie and what the messages are. In fact, some of the messages in Avatar, like with any book or movie, may not be what the original writer/director, etc intended. Many people dismissed Avatar for being too simplistic and black/white which we know isn't true. I don't think that Cameron or anyone else can expect people to change over night but if it brings up thought provoking issues that people can actually talk about then he did his job.

I am a conservative on social issues and liberal on some political issues but after seeing Avatar, it got me thinking and pondering about various issues related to the environment, etc. Good art should make one think and allow for conversation. I feel that the "conservative" response was sad. They readily dismissed it without truly watching it. I think it could be due to some of the cringe worthy lines. I love Avatar but there are a few clunky lines that can take someone out of the movie and into the current political situation. That may be why some people were upset and dismissive of the movie.

That's it! The proof is hear, we see issues it addresses and we disscus them. I was suprised to see this site with very disscusive topics on morals. I mean, alot of us hear now have a resentment ageinst greedy corporations.

I'm a liberal, but I try to see it from both sides some times but most of the time I just dissagree with the Conservitive reasons. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me. And that part about how conservatists dismiss avatar off the bat when they hear about it, that is just sad. I have a friend who's partents were hard core conservatisis and with out even seeing the movie, they don't allow him to see it. It's so sad to learn that there are some people who are completely ignorient to everything but there own belief.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993

That's it! The proof is hear, we see issues it addresses and we disscus them. I was suprised to see this site with very disscusive topics on morals. I mean, alot of us hear now have a resentment ageinst greedy corporations.

Exactly. This is what good art does. It helps to wake us up at least to the point that we are talking to each other. We see it so often in the media and general culture, very few people with opposite views actually talking to each other. Instead there is too much bickering and hate.

I'm a liberal, but I try to see it from both sides some times but most of the time I just dissagree with the Conservitive reasons. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me.

I understand where you are coming from but also keep in mind that very few people can be bunched up into liberal or conservative groups. I am a mixture of both. On some moral issues I cannot waver in my conservative position. On everything else, I am more liberal. I have always loved the environment before Avatar but what it did do was awaken in me to have a greater concern for it as well as learning to listen to others. Before Avatar I was listening to more conservative groups but when I saw what their reaction was to the movie, I stopped listening to them because I was disgusted by their reaction. They took it personally when there is very little if any indication in the movie that it was aimed at them at all.

And that part about how conservatists dismiss avatar off the bat when they hear about it, that is just sad. I have a friend who's partents were hard core conservatisis and with out even seeing the movie, they don't allow him to see it. It's so sad to learn that there are some people who are completely ignorient to everything but there own belief.

This is very sad. I grew up in a conservative home and most of my friends irl are also conservative and it irks me sometimes to see some of the knee jerk reactions. It makes us look bad, especially those of us who are also very religiously devout. I enjoyed Avatar and I took from it some very important lessons. Some lessons that perhaps Cameron didn't anticipate. People will read into any work of art weather it is a movie, play, book, painting, sculpture, music, etc anything that they wish to read. Some will only see hate and evil and others will only see love and joy. Very few people will see the more profound messages that can be drawn. Sure, some will only see simplicity and scoff at that but sometimes it is the simplest of stories that we need to hear most.