Birds Falling Out Of The Sky?! - Debate

[Eltu]

For all of you who want to take this to a debate level, here's your thread.

[Human No More]

I don't see the point in this - it is a political 'debate' - this is not a 'debate' about birds dying because that was never the problem in that thread.

[Isard]

Its pretty much the militant environmentalists calling everybody else blind. Same old same old.

[Tsyal Makto]

^ And you tell me I dehumanize people.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

^ And you tell me I dehumanize people.

Actually, that was something new I came up with in the past few days during my musings.



And I'd bet you still haven't written your congressman.

[Tsyal Makto]

Do you?

[Eltu]

Debating is one thing, personal disputes is another. Keep eventual disagreements of this kind to PM's, or they will be removed from this thread.

[Woodsprite]

Well, in response to Focus's post from the last thread,

Originally Posted by Fosus

Isard And Woodsprite. You have stated that poisoning 4 million birds in a year is no big deal to you, right?

I'd like to ask a personal question then. Feel free to leave it unanswered.. I'm just curious.

Is there any life form that you have zero tolerance with? Any species you would mind being poisoned in just a little amounts?
The kind of impression your posts have given to me is that the only life you respect is human life..

I am not for the act of killing birds just for the sake of killing birds. The blackbirds were causing crop failure, and farmers were hurt. This isn't about just killing. If the thread were about "4 million blackbirds dead from hunters" then yes, I'd be angry. There's no reason for that.

But there's a good reason for their deaths in this case.

[auroraglacialis]

Replies and quotes from the previous thread

Originally Posted by Isard

[On writing letters/petitions to the government.] You're right, it wont help. Because you wont do it.

Well, I did not write a letter yet, no, but that is usually because someone else prepared a letter, a petition or a lawsuit for many of the topics already and I can be lazy to just put my name on it or my body on the street. And I have signed petitions, participated in campains and protests, walked the streets with posters shouting against loss of privacy and the rise of the police state, put my name on lawsuits against laws that are about to destroy liberty and freedom and so on. I created and printed posters and glued them on walls and in the streets to get people to sign a petition and vote on a "citizens vote" against a construction project. I've seen what leads to what and I have seen that writing letters and walking the streets alone are not as effective as the effort that is put into it would suggest. The lawsuit was a success BTW, but that is hardly a friendly letter to "my coucilmen".

Originally Posted by Isard

Because, you know, the radio and the internet have sterling reputations for being unbaised...

I'd be interested in knowing one thing. You always insist here, that all of the people who are of a different opinion are biased and influenced by biased and propagandist media. Not only is that nonsense (I have come to many of my conclusions by myself and in my experience as a scientist), but I ask myself: What source of information do you, Isard, have that is unbiased and not propagandist? Because if you have none, if your source of information is corporate media, Fox News, Glenn Beck,... etc you cannot claim "high ground" on that issue.

Originally Posted by Isard

You don't see them as people. They're "the government", "the corporations", and they cause all your problems. The first step in rabble rousing is making your "enemies" less than human

Erm - corporation ARE not human and not people. Just because they are called "legal persons" does not make them persons. People work for corporations, but the idea that a corporation is a legal entity with rights is part of the whole insanity. It enables people to act irresponsibly and destructive without having to take the beat for it. Some guy poisoning birds can always say "it is only my job", same can the guy who cuts down trees, who decides to save the money for a second blowout preventer on a drilling rig or a good german in the 1940ies who is burning bodies at Dachau.
By taking away the responsability of each person and putting it into a "limited liability" agreement, this is a free letter to destroy everything - human and nonhuman.

Originally Posted by Isard

And I'm not sure you understand Walmart. We doesn't manufacture anything, we're a wholesale distributor.

Thanks for the "we". That clears up A LOT! OMG!

really!? "we at Walmart..."

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

I am not for the act of killing birds just for the sake of killing birds. The blackbirds were causing crop failure[...] But there's a good reason for their deaths in this case.

That makes it abundantly clear indeed. The life of birds is just not worth as much as the profit made by the farmers that would be reduced by crop loss. Very easy $$$ > life . As I said: insane and seriously not worthy of someone callimg himself "seed of the sacred tree". More like Mr "they can move" Selfridge...

[Fosus]

Okay, thanks for answering.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Lon

Traditionally these cullings are largely accepted to prevent the spread of potential diseases. Some bacterial infections that birds get are thought to be transmissible to man. The most important bacterial agent that is a human risk is mycobacteria or tuberculosis. Birds can carry M. tuberculosis, the human form of tuberculosis, and M. avium, the avian form of tuberculosis which is transmissible to man.

And that's that.

[Isard]

Yeah, we the people. You know, because a corporation is an organization of people. There is no corporation without people, so, since you only acknowledge "the corporation", you're ignoring the people, because its very hard to call for the destruction of people. By demonizing one, you demonize all. So, as both an employee and a shareholder, I'll be taking some of your insulting comments quite personally.


Now, since I've identified as one of your demon enemies, you won't take anything I say in any seriousness. So, I'm not even going to bother.


Also, I think you just compared the USDA to Nazi's.

Some guy poisoning birds can always say "it is only my job", same can the guy who cuts down trees, who decides to save the money for a second blowout preventer on a drilling rig or a good german in the 1940ies who is burning bodies at Dachau.

No, you did just compare the USDA to Nazi's.


Nice.

[Tsyal Makto]

Isard, do you really think corporations are run in the cutesy and quaint manner you seem to think they are? Do you really think they're benign entities where everyone chugs along like a well-oiled machine, all while humming a tune as if it's santa's workshop? Yeah, maybe from where you are, but you're not seeing it from the PoV of a lobbyist, the CEO, the BoD, or the government officials they pay off. They've got the legislature, the courts, and the presidency (but I bet you think that's a good thing). Watch Capitalism: A Love Story, or hell, you don't even have to go that far, just watch this. Corporations are not egalitarian, they're not democratic, they're dicatorships. Do you want micro-dictatorships ruling the world? Do you really want to turn back 300 years of enlightenment thinking and return the world to fuedalism? Because that's what they want.

*Waits for you to make a brouhaha over Keith comparing corporate money to slavery*

Or better yet, you can just skip both those movies and just take a lesson from George Carlin.

But by all means, keep popping the blue pill.

[Woodsprite]

What is it with the stupid "blue pill" Matrix reference that everyone here is so obsessive about? There is no "in the dark" point of view. We have the information we have, and some people interpret it differently than others.

Fact: There is no blue pill.

The world isn't black and white like the Matrix. Step into reality...

[Isard]

No, I don't think they run in a "cutesy quaint manner". The also aren't the fascist dictatorships that you make them out to be. Is this so hard?