Are we heading toward a new Dark ages?

[PunkMaister]

Here a lot is spoken about overpopulation as if the problem is generalized when it is really more a third world problem than anything else and environmental degradation that again a lot of it is happening in the third world as well. But beyond this there really complex social problems at work here such as the loss of principles, morals and values that for eons kept societies together.

As this principles that date as far back a even before we invented the wheel keep eroding we see more and more disturbing things on the news. A few days back I read how a social worker had to stop a 9 year old third grader from using a knife to try to rape a female companion of the same age. 9 Years old! That a 9 year old would even be harboring such ideas was unheard off decades ago.

As crime and corruption just keeps growing it will get to a boiling point where society and civilization completely collapses upon itself and we are already seeing it. We will see power hungry groups,in the United states and everywhere vying for power. Cities will become totally unlivable as even the most basic of services falter. Don't believe it? Take a look at what happened to New Orleans after Katrina when it became no man's land with armed thugs, stealing, maiming, raping and killing. That' the future for all cities in the planet as order around the globe collapses.

Food production will come to a screeching halt once this takes place and unimaginable famine will set in as well, diseases will run more rampant than ever before. On a lighter note to many here it will effectively take care of the overpopulation problem that plagues the third world brutally but effectively none the less. It is likely that by the time the new dark ages period comes to an end there will be no more than 10,000 or so humans left in the whole planet.

[Tsyal Makto]

Every empire must fall eventually...

Though I think 10,000 is a bit low, maybe a few hundred million (obviously mostly first-worlders) would survive if this happened (god forbid).

This is why I advocate revolution now, instead of waiting for these problems to reach that point in the future. We need to fix these problems before they lead to the downfall of humanity. It's corporatism that leads to a lot of these problems (good examples are in Bowling for Columbine and Capitalism: A Love Story), and we need to stop power-hungry corporations before they destroy us.

[PunkMaister]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

Every empire must fall eventually...

Though I think 10,000 is a bit low, maybe a few hundred million (obviously mostly first-worlders) would survive if this happened (god forbid).

This is why I advocate revolution now, instead of waiting for these problems to reach that point in the future. We need to fix these problems before they lead to the downfall of humanity. It's corporatism that leads to a lot of these problems (good examples are in Bowling for Columbine and Capitalism: A Love Story), and we need to stop power-hungry corporations before they destroy us.

Hold your horses lad! The problem is not Capitalism but social and moral decay. do not try to sell the failed ideology of Marxism, communism etc because is not going to work. Now having said Mega Corporations are the antithesis of Capitalism because for Capitalism to exist it needs competition and that is what this mega corporations crush.

I believe that it is through individual action rather than big Government that the world is to be saved if we wait for either an ever bigger government to do something it wont' be for the better or our behalf but in theirs, same as those mega corporations.

I am and will always be a Libertarian and a conservative at heart and as such I will never accept what the radical left has to offer. Sadly it is they who mostly control the Environmentalist movement which they use to peddle their own agenda. It is sad because it effectively excludes Libertarian/Conservative Environmentalists like Sprite and myself to name a few.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by PunkMaister

Hold your horses lad! The problem is not Capitalism but social and moral decay. do not try to sell the failed ideology of Marxism, communism etc because is not going to work. Now having said Mega Corporations are the antithesis of Capitalism because for Capitalism to exist it needs competition and that is what this mega corporations crush.

I believe that it is through individual action rather than big Government that the world is to be saved if we wait for either an ever bigger government to do something it wont' be for the better or our behalf but in theirs, same as those mega corporations.

I am and will always be a Libertarian and a conservative at heart and as such I will never accept what the radical left has to offer. Sadly it is they who mostly control the Environmentalist movement which they use to peddle their own agenda. It is sad because it effectively excludes Libertarian/Conservative Environmentalists like Sprite and myself to name a few.

I've debated this issue with you countless times, but your eyes are obviously shut, you've clearly seen my stance on the issue in my blog.

As for corporations, yes they are a 'major' part of the problem, capitalism is infact. But there are other factors at play, although more minor.

[PunkMaister]

Originally Posted by Spock

I've debated this issue with you countless times, but your eyes are obviously shut, you've clearly seen my stance on the issue in my blog.

As for corporations, yes they are a 'major' part of the problem, capitalism is infact. But there are other factors at play, although more minor.

With all due respect Spock your Blog is just about overpopulation and environmental degradation and does not cover the issues discussed here at all in any detail that would matter a damn in this regard.

And no Corporations in general are not the problem, although Mega Corporations on the other hand are because they monopolize markets and when someone has a monopoly and total control over something it is taken taken out of the capitalism equation of supply and demand because they are the only ones that can supply it period.

[Tsyal Makto]

Hold your horses. I didn't say capitalism itself was bad, I said corporatism (I'm not personally as extreme as Michael Moore). I like the Founding Father's idea of capitalism, where everyone got a chance to get in on the game (IE - small/local business!). We do not have a system of true capitalism in the world, this is corporate fascism. How is it true capitalism - where everyone has a chance - when no one has a chance when something like Wal-Mart or other mega corporations exists? These mega corporations, in turn, can buy/lobby their way into government, and control us. How is that democracy/freedom?

I wish individual action was the answer, but it isn't. This laissez faire brought mega corporations into existance, I doubt it will also lead to their demise. A governing body (one free of corruption) is the most logical body to level the playing field. Corporate influence in government makes it less effective (look at the current health care battle, nobody is happy with that one, except health insurance CEOs), making people disapprove of it. We haven't had a government that was looking out for the good of it's people for a while, we should at least give it a chance.

And I think you have a perverted view of liberalism. Go look up people like Thom Hartmann and Ed Schultz, they are the voices of the left. They advocate a return to true, local capitalism, and the importance of environmentalism. They aren't these crazies that you seem to think the left is about.

[Human No More]

I agree that the problem isn't capitalism. Capitalism allows adaptation and innovation in a way that most systems do not - if anything, it's one of the few ways the problem could potentially be solved. Overpopulation though, certainly is a problem. There is no way the planet can realistically handle 6.5 billion people - for most of history, the human population has been a LOT smaller.

[ZenitYerkes]

In Spain we've been having a controversy because of the introduction of Sexual Education in schools. Like they show you where do you have the G zones and where the pleasure is.

I believe that we're forming people only on the academic (and now sexual) side, but we don't care about the values side; it seems we cannot form complete persons. Honesty, effort, companionship, respect, responsibility, love, peace,... Enterprises just want people to get the work done, not people that can think by themselves.

Some label this kind of moral education as "brainwashing"; but I believe we're constantly subjugated under the commercial brainwashing machine: you always need to buy something else, even though you didn't have a clue that existed before. So, instead of showing you what stuff you might like to buy in the next week, show the people who Plato, Aristotle, St. Aguistin, Machiavelli, Newton, Nietzsche,... were.

Although I'm not Catholic I still like rather than any other educative system the Jesuit one. They care about forming generous people for the rest, not for selfish interests. Over everything else, love and serve; that's their motto.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

In Spain we've been having a controversy because of the introduction of Sexual Education in schools. Like they show you where do you have the G zones and where the pleasure is.

Whoa! I can see why this is controversial. Stuff like this should be taught by parents, not by the school system nor the state.

I believe that we're forming people only on the academic (and now sexual) side, but we don't care about the values side; it seems we cannot form complete persons. Honesty, effort, companionship, respect, responsibility, love, peace,... Enterprises just want people to get the work done, not people that can think by themselves.

This is the best quote I have seen about this . I agree 100%. It is scary that all today's society can do is produce human machines who eat and buy their products but have no heart, no soul, no moral sense. What ever happened to that? These are extremely important morals to have if we are ever to survive. Sure, our civilization could collapse. Nothing lasts forever. However, strong morals will be needed even in small hunting/gathering communities.

Some label this kind of moral education as "brainwashing"; but I believe we're constantly subjugated under the commercial brainwashing machine: you always need to buy something else, even though you didn't have a clue that existed before. So, instead of showing you what stuff you might like to buy in the next week, show the people who Plato, Aristotle, St. Aguistin, Machiavelli, Newton, Nietzsche,... were.

Exactly. I find it odd that so many people are allergic to anything that sounds "moral" being taught in schools (claiming brainwashing or imposing your opinions on everyone) but have no problem with the constant brainwashing that we get from the "machine" (ie. media, schools, business, etc). I also agree that the classics need to be taught. We stand on the shoulders of giants. For to long our society has wanted to tear down any wall and any connection with our past, with our traditions, and with our ancestors.

Although I'm not Catholic I still like rather than any other educative system the Jesuit one. They care about forming generous people for the rest, not for selfish interests. Over everything else, love and serve; that's their motto.

I agree . Actually, I have a tiny bit of hope. Judging from the sort of discussions that we have on here, especially the younger ones (in their teens and 20's) it seems to me that there are some of you that are willing to stem the tide. Not just to save the environment. That is very important too. But also to stem the tide of this ugliness, this hatred, etc that is sweep through every pore of our society.

So, there is a tiny ray of hope. Several of you have come to the realization that something is gravely wrong and it needs to be improved.

[~ViperSB1~]

No, enough said...

[ZenitYerkes]

I don't know why but I'm coming up with music videos for everything up lately.

[Human No More]

I'd say that contact with another species is less likely to destroy humanity, and more likely to save it. It would finally get people off focusing on short term profiting and thinking more about the future and everyone else

[Grif]

Believe it or not, but most people are good at heart. The horror stories we see on the news are based on the acts of a few, and we can't let them get to us. If we accept this as our fate then we give up all hope for humanity, and at that point you may as well kill yourself because there is no point in existence after that.

[Fosus]

Originally Posted by Grif

Believe it or not, but most people are good at heart.

That is very true.

Originally Posted by Grif

The horror stories we see on the news are based on the acts of a few, and we can't let them get to us.

However, like you stated, these good-hearted people do fall very often. Thanks to the news and other media, we are constantly reminded about that. Human mind is easy to manipulate.. and "they" do, get to us. Every time we read news we'll become just more and more ignorant to these terrible things. Like PunkMaister pointed out in the first post: in this society, it's very easy to forget what is right and what is wrong.

Originally Posted by Grif

If we accept this as our fate then we give up all hope for humanity, and at that point you may as well kill yourself because there is no point in existence after that.

There's no way i'd build my life on lies. If you lie to yourself you can save the world, you will most likely suicide once you realize you can not. But if you just accept the facts, the problems we have, you wont worry about the inevitable (Lets face it, nothing is forever) and instead of trying to save the world, you could use your time to help people.

Originally Posted by PunkMaister

But beyond this there really complex social problems at work here such as the loss of principles, morals and values that for eons kept societies together.

^ IMO this is the big problem, not capitalism, not communism.

Basically my opinion is: Instead of wasting your time on things you cannot change, please use it for providing a safe environment for our children to grow up in. You wouldn't want to hear that your nine-year old child has tried to rape someone. Children are the future decision-makers.

[Grif]

Originally Posted by Fosus

There's no way i'd build my life on lies. If you lie to yourself you can save the world, you will most likely suicide once you realize you can not. But if you just accept the facts, the problems we have, you wont worry about the inevitable (Lets face it, nothing is forever) and instead of trying to save the world, you could use your time to help people.

You know, you're a real buzz kill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_6iTCo5Ci8


I believe that something I do will improve the quality of life for someone. We don't know if the fight is over yet, and I'm sure as hell not going to back out now.