Should Government Stay Out of Social Policy Altogether?

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

Are you saying that the fact that people don't have money ultimately leads to crime? Thus, should we spread the wealth around using government taxes on the rich to support those poor people who're "led" to crime?

Powerty is one of several causes of crime, but an important one. A society where resources is more equally distributed is more free from crime and more socially stable.
It is much better spending tax money on a more economically equal society than having to spend them on a gigantic policeforce or a lot of prisons. Also it is better to spend tax money to fight economic inequality than on meaningless wars on the other side of the globe.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Powerty is one of several causes of crime, but an important one. A society where resources is more equally distributed is more free from crime and more socially stable.

...And less free.

Forcing people to pay money for other people's unwillingness to get a job, no matter how rich the person, is wrong. It's Robin Hood economics. Spreading the wealth around not only takes tons more money from the rich, but it gives one the impression that there's really no point in trying to advance to make more money if the government will just tax you more for whatever you make.


EDIT: Wow, this is my 1,700th post!

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...And less free.

Well, fredom is relative. Poor people are never free in a capitalist society. They are always limited in their actions because of lack of resources.

Originally Posted by Woodsprite

...Forcing people to pay money for other people's unwillingness to get a job, no matter how rich the person, is wrong. It's Robin Hood economics. Spreading the wealth around not only takes tons more money from the rich, but it gives one the impression that there's really no point in trying to advance to make more money if the government will just tax you more for whatever you make.

Most people are not unemployed or poor because they are not willing to job, that is just a typical American (and capitalist) myth that obscures reality. Most people are poor because there is unequality in the distribution of resources in a society. And that unequality is there because the system allows a parasitic class that thrives on others work.
Many people that are poor actually work, some have even two or three jobs and are still not able to fully support themselves or their families. Instad the revenues of their jobs goes to others that are more apt at using the system to their own benefit.
Such injustices ofcourse create alienation among many people, leading some of them into antisocial behaviour (like crime, using drugs and similar).
To decrease alienation all people must have a fair share of societal resources, those resources can not be limited for just a few.
So if people want to live in a society that is not full of violence and drugs and other social problems they just have to be prepared to share with others.

[Banefull]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Well, fredom is relative. Poor people are never free in a capitalist society. They are always limited in their actions because of lack of resources.



Most people are not unemployed or poor because they are not willing to job, that is just a typical American (and capitalist) myth that obscures reality. Most people are poor because there is unequality in the distribution of resources in a society. And that unequality is there because the system allows a parasitic class that thrives on others work.
Many people that are poor actually work, some have even two or three jobs and are still not able to fully support themselves or their families. Instad the revenues of their jobs goes to others that are more apt at using the system to their own benefit.
Such injustices ofcourse create alienation among many people, leading some of them into antisocial behaviour (like crime, using drugs and similar).
To decrease alienation all people must have a fair share of societal resources, those resources can not be limited for just a few.
So if people want to live in a society that is not full of violence and drugs and other social problems they just have to be prepared to share with others.

Is anyone completely 100% free? The resources of the rich aren't unlimited.

I agree that poverty is not a result of laziness or any lack of trying on their part, its something they are born into; however, when it comes to violence I disagree. There is a high association between violence and poverty these days but there isn't a direct cause and effect relationship. There are plenty of poor people who live perfectly happy lives around the world. A lot of poor people in third world countries are happier than most rich people in the developed world. If you go back in history, the crime rate among the poor people in 1st world countries was not always so high amongst the poor.

Something had to change but what? I would say that its our values.

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Banefull

Is anyone completely 100% free? The resources of the rich aren't unlimited.

But still they are very conspicious in the eyes of poor people.

Originally Posted by Banefull

I agree that poverty is not a result of laziness or any lack of trying on their part, its something they are born into; however, when it comes to violence I disagree. There is a high association between violence and poverty these days but there isn't a direct cause and effect relationship. There are plenty of poor people who live perfectly happy lives around the world. A lot of poor people in third world countries are happier than most rich people in the developed world. If you go back in history, the crime rate among the poor people in 1st world countries was not always so high amongst the poor.

Something had to change but what? I would say that its our values.

Powerty is ofcourse not the only reaoson for violence. Culture, values, religions, mentality and a lot of other factors also contribute. But unequality is a root of much alienation, hopelessness and miscontent which in its turn can create violent reactions. When people see no hope of getting a fairer share of societal resources some react by grabbing it by force. Others try to escape reality through drugs which in its turn creates violence (together with the concurrence and other factors connected with the trade of drugs).

Also media has probably a part in incresing miscontent since poor people today can see the allegeded dream life of the rich and prosperous with their own eyes.
And historically speaking powerty and miscontent have been parts of many wars, conflicts, upheavals and revolutions.

[Fosus]

Originally Posted by Banefull

Is anyone completely 100% free? The resources of the rich aren't unlimited.

With this way of thinking, indeed no one is free. And to be honest no one should be 100% free as not having to do anything to make a living isn't right.

I should maybe stay out of the freedom talk though, as I don't like the idea of anyone having more than their share of the Earths resources.

[EywaBlessMe]

Originally Posted by Banefull

The resources of the rich aren't unlimited.

Many, if not most rich people act from the stance not to help those who have little, but to assure that the rich keep what they have, through policy, or even militarily.