Rights and privileges

[Banefull]

Hmmm, a good start would be to find something that is universally beneficial and universally accepted and I think there is but one thing that fits the bill.

The golden rule:
Treat others as you would have them treat you.

Every religion, every culture, every view -- Christianity, Buddhism, Confucianism, Secular Humanism, Mythology, and Primal Traditions, has some expression or acknowledgement of this concept. Some views like Buddhism, Confucianism, and Christianity have this concept spelled out formally while others have an informal sense of it.

I would argue that nothing else matters so long as this principle is acknowledged and followed. If we want food, then we will provide food for others also. If we want to be able to speak freely, then we will respect what others have to say. If we want time to be alone, then we will give others the time to be alone.

[Sempu]

Originally Posted by Banefull

Hmmm, a good start would be to find something that is universally beneficial and universally accepted and I think there is but one thing that fits the bill.

The golden rule:
Treat others as you would have them treat you.

I would argue that nothing else matters so long as this principle is acknowledged and followed.

Ah, if only it were that simple. But how we would like to be treated is not always how others would like to be treated. A meat lover serves a vegetarian spare ribs, believing he's too skinny. A frat friend takes a Muslim to a strip joint, or gives donuts to a friend training for the marathon.

Sure, you can abstract the rule to say that it should be used to help people be happy; mind you, some people don't want that either. These were gross examples of mistakes that happen in relationships all the time: well-meaning people try to help but do not understand the other person. I find more helpful to have the rule:

Treat others as they would like to be treated.

And then you have to find out how they would like to be treated, which promotes the communication and understanding that should be taking place.

[Sempu]

Originally Posted by Sempu

Treat others as they would like to be treated.

And it's not that simple either. The heroin addict wants one thing only, his next fix; do you help him get it? The beggar on the corner wants a dollar, and swears it is for food or bus fare. You know the odds are 100 to 1 he will use it for booze or drugs. Do you give it to him knowing the chances that you will be contributing to his destruction? A friend has written a brilliant debut play. But his vengeful girlfriend told him it was crap and he swore off writing. Do you send it to your agent friend anyway?

Sometimes - often - what someone wants isn't the best thing you can do for them. Maybe a better rule is:

Treat others as their highest consciousness would like to be treated.

And then there is not only communication, but learning.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Sempu

Sometimes - often - what someone wants isn't the best thing you can do for them. Maybe a better rule is:

Treat others as their highest consciousness would like to be treated.

And then there is not only communication, but learning.

It's essentially the same thing. "Treat others as you would have them treat you" is inferring that the best interest of the person is always apparent, even when it may not be for the actual individual. Whether someone wants something good or bad, the good is obvious, while the bad is also obvious.

Both your arguments are unclear. You assume that if you treat the person the way you would want to be treated, that automatically means it includes everything you desire. That's not entirely true. The person you treat takes these actions negatively. No matter what the action, if the person you do the action for takes it as a negative one, and you are aware he/she thinks of them this way, you are not following the golden rule; you are following your desires in what you would want back from them, not necessarily what they want. That's being selfish. They wouldn't want to have meat or go to a strip club, just as you wouldn't want to pray in a mosque or eat vegetables for the rest of your life.

As for the heroin argument, the best interest of the person (as I said before) is always obvious. A person may want a fix, but you, as well as society, understands that heroin leads to consequences. By being a friend, you would prevent him from taking more, which is productive and leading to a better life. You are thus doing for him what you would want done to yourself if you had a heroin addiction. Being a friend doesn't necessarily mean doing all for him that he wants. Being a friend can mean doing things for him that he may not desire, but will be thankful for in the future.