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| View Poll Results: Should we allow religious debates and discussions? | |||
| Yes |
   
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14 | 53.85% |
| No |
  
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12 | 46.15% |
| Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#16
10-12-2010, 07:19 PM
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The thread was never derailed. It was resolved. Luckily, because you weren't ever there to lock it, so the resolution could take place. There was no need to bring it up again. There's no reason to... unless you're intending to avert Elyannia's vote. Read my previous post again, please...
...And I've been using your real name when talking directly to you ever since I learned it months ago. I thought you'd notice by now.  No need to get vicious....And read Elyannia's post, too. Last edited by Human No More; 10-12-2010 at 09:52 PM. Reason: name 
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#17
10-12-2010, 07:26 PM
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__________________
 "We were given: Two hands to hold. To legs to walk. Two eyes to see. Two ears to listen. But why only one heart? Because the other was given to someone else. For us to find." "Gandhi said that whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it because nobody else will. Like when someone comes into your life and half of you says: 'You're nowhere near ready'. And the other half says: 'Make her yours forever'."-Remember Me "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"-Mahatma Gandhi "It can't rain all the time"-The Crow
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#18
10-12-2010, 07:37 PM
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I'm sick of it all.
ToS is the only thing I really care about, perhaps I take people's actions too personally in some cases. Nobody is perfect but I try to be reasonable - I hate the entire 'debate' forum, but people want it, so I respect that. I respect that some people disagree and I try to discuss their points reasonably without resorting to ad hominem like some people do. Sometimes I have overreacted to some things people have said, but so has everyone else and personally, I have tried to avoid ad hominem and similar arguments, and I have not made unfounded claims about people in a thread based simply on a difference of opinion. EVERY person who leaves hurts me... Every time, I wonder why they did, what was wrong, how things SHOULD have been. Every thread that turns from a simple 'debate' into arguments and accusations makes me sad. Woodsprite likes to accuse me of locking threads where that happens to, which I have done a few times because I don't wan what I've seen happen to far too many forums happen here. I care about ToS, about everyone... even if I disagree with some of the people here on these issues, I still value them, everyone has contributed so much. I trust people here a LOT, more than anyone I know IRL. Every day, I can find something here that makes me happy. I have never seen anywhere like what we have here and doubt I ever will anywhere else. THAT is why things that hurt ToS upset me. Sorry, I have to go AFK now, I can't handle all of this. Maybe I'll write some more later.
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#19
10-12-2010, 08:02 PM
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Ok... "Human No More".
 I realize you probably won't be here to respond, but here's a post from me for you to come back to. Maybe your "way" of dealing with things, like locking threads constantly without trying to resolve anything and threatening to reveal people's IP addresses, isn't exactly the right way to handle things. If you love ToS, why the hate? If you hate the debate section, why do you participate in it? I don't believe I've "accused" you of anything. I believe I've rather attributed certain actions to your method of dealing with situations. You usually never try to resolve threads with problems. You instead revert to closing them. If you had come any earlier to that thread, you would have locked it. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that you would have done so. Thankfully, before you arrived, we resolved the conflict, deleted our posts on our own (most importantly), and continued peaceful discussion on the matter. As I've PMed you about this issue (might as well bring it fully into the open, as you've already done so with most of it), your rate of locking threads is abnormal. At least, more than it was before. It didn't used to be this way with you; I don't know what happened. You claim that ToS is full of loving, thoughtful, friendly members, but you never give us a chance to show it. It's like the U.S. government thinking they're somehow responsible for resolving every war on the planet, becoming the world police. You're doing the same thing when you feel that something's going downhill, so you lock lock lock without trying to resolve. That's your problem, --er, "HNM". You say that you "sometimes" overreact... Well, I'd say moreso often. Look at what you just did in this very thread: you threatened to reveal my IP address because I called you ""! Honestly, what the hell is wrong with you?! Is this what a good administrator would normally do? Is it, really? This has gone far beyond the boundries or where it's supposed to go... ...and the majority has voted so far to keep religious discussion a part of this forum. Last edited by Human No More; 10-12-2010 at 09:56 PM. Reason: personal info
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#20
10-12-2010, 08:18 PM
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I kind of agree with woodsprite =/ I don't want to turn this into a "Lets all hate on HNM" thread, but seriously HNM you have been very gloom and been putting down people a lot and I think you need to take a break from here. I've been taking my break and it has been doing wonders on my state of mind. It's been really hard to tell if you do love the people in the forum because you sure never show it or atleast I never see it.
If you don't like the debate forum then don't go to it, it's simple. I don't go to any of the Jake threads ,beause I don't like how people think of jake as only a sexual thing so I stay away from it.
__________________
"We were given: Two hands to hold. To legs to walk. Two eyes to see. Two ears to listen. But why only one heart? Because the other was given to someone else. For us to find." "Gandhi said that whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it because nobody else will. Like when someone comes into your life and half of you says: 'You're nowhere near ready'. And the other half says: 'Make her yours forever'."-Remember Me "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"-Mahatma Gandhi "It can't rain all the time"-The Crow
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#22
10-12-2010, 10:32 PM
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Holy crap....
Break it up, you guys. This is just a poll thread. As far as I can tell, HNM was just trying to show Elyannia that others were attacking her, and that Woodsprite shouldn't be posting irl names because that's just as bad as posting other info about people. *ON TOPIC* I voted no. I will not sacrifice the stability of these forums just so that people can argue about more topics. If you really want to do that, go do so on a forum that allows it; it has already been proven that religion is a hot topic here and that it tends to cause heated and harmful arguments. If people can discuss it without insults or escalating aggression, then I'm okay with it. However, that has not been the case so far.
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Modern technology owes ecology an apology. Trouble keeps me running faster Save the planet from disaster...
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#23
10-12-2010, 10:43 PM
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I don't think that banning religious 'discussions' is necessary... but I do think that they are by far the biggest cause of problems on the forum. All that I MEANT to discuss with the other mods and admins was that we need to watch them more carefully and be harder on thread derailments (unintentional or otherwise) I'll state it again - I have no actual problem with mention of religious topics or even debates if people remain reasonable. Yes, sometimes, I've overreacted but still avoided resorting to ad hominem in absence of a genuine argument, while I have been insulted, compared to nazis, and even had my family insulted by people on these forums as a result of religious debates. I have tried to avoid getting personal back, but it's not always easy when people say things like that. All this by people who I DO still hold respect for and like, but who seem to be unable to prevent it form escalating. Sometimes, a thread does run its course and has to end. In those cases, nobody can get the last word, and sometimes things can not be resolved. Leaving it open just creates more resentment as each side will increase the tension because when one person makes a personal attack, others respond. I have no problem with reasonable evolution of the topic of a thread, but some posts have been using religion as a lever to bring a thread off topic as quickly as they can. THAT is what I wanted this topic to be about, I never intended or planned to ban any mention. That is Eltu's interpretation. Yes, I know you've been using my IRL name before now, but so far only in PMs to me. Posting it openly on a public forum is a huge difference. I never had any intention to actually post your IP address or email, because that would be unjustified and even overreacting on my part. I don't want to do that, because that would make me as bad as the abuse that I was responding to. I have no problem with you knowing my name (even in skype, or even IRC), but I do object to you posting it on a public forum which is regularly crawled by google. I'm sure there are very few people who would want their details posted, especially with the tendency of people to hate Avatar. ---------------------------------------- So here's what I say: I will try my hardest to be more careful around these threads, but EVERYONE has to accept that others do not necessarily think the same way as them, and avoid making things personal. That goes for both sides, and not just religious 'debates' but all 'debates'. I have no problem with discussing things and have even found some of the threads there interesting. Unfortunately, when people disagree, sometimes it gets taken too far. That breeds resentment and that makes things worse the next time. I've been on more forums than many people could guess... Some I've stayed on, some I've left one way or another, some forums died. Most forums were completely different to here, but there is one constant. In the ones that die, if you were familiar with it and took a look beneath the surface, you would see that they all had problems with arguments, resentment, people holding grudges and building up an agenda against others. I don't want to see this happening and I see that I was not helping. I am not saying I was the only person - far from it, but now, I hope to change that. I will listen, but not to people openly flouting the rules. On either side. If you avoid making personal insults, ad hominem attacks and fallacious arguments against an entire idea, there will be no problem. I HAVE enjoyed some discussions in that subforum, but when things degrade to ad hominem, I do not enjoy it and sometimes I respond out of anger, I am not the only one. After all, we do all have instincts. Equally, everyone needs to avoid driving threads OUTSIDE the 'debate' forum off topic into a debate, whether consciously or not. People generally KNOW what others' stance is, people do not need to remind others of that constantly when it bears little or no relevance to the thread. I love ToS more than just about anything else in my life. Every time there is an argument, it hurts me. Tonight has made me cry quite a lot. This post has taken a lot of effort and even more time and thinking on my part to write, I just hope it will be worth it. I value every person here - as I said earlier, every person who leaves makes me wonder to myself 'why?', sometimes I have spent quite a lot of time wondering what was wrong.
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#24
10-12-2010, 10:47 PM
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There is no way to rationally debate religious beliefs.
Also, you all need to realize that internet forums r srs bsns. Third edit, to illustrate my point, I turn to Heath Ledger's cat. 
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:psyduck: Last edited by Isard; 10-13-2010 at 02:21 AM.
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#26
10-13-2010, 04:47 AM
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I find myself agreeing with Aihwa's last post here. Just calm down a bit everyone.
 I am seeing a huge disconnect between how everyone is perceiving the current state of affairs. Some people are saying that nothing is wrong happening, some are saying that there are only minor problems, others are saying that ToS is falling apart. And there are differing perceptions on whats happening amongst the moderators. Its all so confusing. Can we all back up a bit and just state what we think is currently happening and why in just a few lines?
Last edited by Banefull; 10-13-2010 at 05:39 AM.
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#27
10-13-2010, 06:08 AM
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 http://www.tree-of-souls.com/general...tml#post101470 I agree with Baneful's earlier comment, especially, there appears to be a much deeper problem than just religious debates. * *
__________________
It was impossible not to have, It's impossible not to be, It's impossible not to still ...!  What this world really needs is more artists and environmentalists! "Its only 'here' that we lose perspective, out at the Cosmic Consciousness Level things get a lot clearer. For example, there is an actual star pattern that is traced in the shape of a Willow Tree, across the breadth of the Milky Way! And no wonder Indigenous peoples refer to the 'here after' as the Happy Hunting Grounds! Has it ever occured to anyone why the bioluminescence dots, on the Na'vi!" Last edited by Mika; 10-13-2010 at 06:12 AM.
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#29
10-13-2010, 07:09 AM
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People should have freedom of speech (to an extent) in a forum same as in a country. Would any of you rather bottle it all up, before releasing it along with your anger? I'm not going to vote on this poll, because I can't decide. People shouldn't argue over this, but at the same time, people have the right to defend their interests. Aihwa's right though. Calm down guys. 
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Last edited by Advent; 10-13-2010 at 07:11 AM.
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#30
10-13-2010, 10:07 AM
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I am not going to do this anymore. I don't care what the administration does anymore. I don't care what people say to me anymore.
I've deleted both of my huge posts. If anyone wishes to see them, I have them saved... but I know that absolutely no one would ever care to read through them. I have lost interest in it all. I'm not going to turn my life into a forum life. I'm a human being who has a real life; one outside ToS that has more meaning than any of this. I'm through. Do what you will. I don't care if religious discussion is allowed or not. I'm out of this. Last edited by Human No More; 10-14-2010 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Personal information AGAIN.
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