Your Opinion on the Sea Shepherds

[Neytiri.]

I like what they're doing but there tactics suck, They drive around in a dingy trying to throw random objects onto the deck of the other ship while they're helicopter just watches, I say load up the chopper with tear gas and continuously drop it on them. I also think they should try disabling the engines of the other ships. Throwing small objects onto a deck doesn't effect a massive vessel very much.

other than that I think what there doing is great, the cause definitely needs attention.

[Human No More]

Yep... there is an entire international treaty about how ships should move with respect to avoiding collisions, it's the sea shepherd ones that have been causing accidents - the whaling ships have generally attempted to AVOID them despite having ships run across in front of them or turning against their side - a ship is very heavy, and even at a relatively low velocity, has a lot of inertia and is difficult to turn at a moment's notice.
I'm surprised nobody from EITHER side has been killed. Either way would be bad, but I know that either side would use any such happening for all the propaganda value they could.

Both sides are acting like idiots, but in general, it's the sea shepherd ships which are attempting to cause accidents.

The same thing happened between british and icelandic fisherman in the 1970s, with various rammings by both sides which were both deliberate and accidental.

[Isard]

So of course, that validates breaking laws. Breaking laws to stop others from breaking laws is perfectly acceptable! Remember the picture I posted?

Fighting fire with fire. It is a pretty ****ty saying.

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

So of course, that validates breaking laws. Breaking laws to stop others from breaking laws is perfectly acceptable! Remember the picture I posted?

Fighting fire with fire. It is a pretty ****ty saying.

Unfortunately some of the laws are instigated by the same people that destroy the world and corrupts justice.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Unfortunately some of the laws are instigated by the same people that destroy the world and corrupts justice.

That reminds me of a quote from southpark... "I AM ABOVE THE LAW!"

As soon as you start making exceptions, it all falls apart.

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

That reminds me of a quote from southpark... "I AM ABOVE THE LAW!"

As soon as you start making exceptions, it all falls apart.

Well, those who instigate unjust laws, they do not have to be above any law, they just make a law that suits their own needs.

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Well, those who instigates unjust laws, they do not have to be above any law, they just make a law that suits their own needs.

This. The governments of the world are corrupt beyond comprehension, filled with bought-and-paid-for politicians. What kind of ignorant fool still believes they work to create laws for the common good anymore?

[Isard]

So, laws don't suit you, so you ignore them to go for what you want. Hmmm, what other organization do we know that did something like this...



RDA

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

So, laws don't suit you, so you ignore them to go for what you want. Hmmm, what other organization do we know that did something like this...
RDA

Well, historically seen, if noone ever broke injust laws we would still have slavery, men owning their women, many countries would be completey destroyed, others would be in the hands of colonialists or corporations. Sometimes laws must be broken in order to protect lives and rights.

And in this particular case, Japan has no business at all in going around hunting whales down in Antarctica thousands of kilometers from Japan. It is just insane.

[Isard]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Well, historically seen, if noone ever broke injust laws we would still have slavery, men owning their women, many countries would be completey destroyed, others would be in the hands of colonialists or corporations. Sometimes laws must be broken in order to protect lives and rights.

And in this particular case, Japan has no business at all in going around hunting whales down in Antarctica thousands of kilometers from Japan. It is just insane.

What about India? They broke through colonialism without becoming violent. And Womens rights were won through communication, rather than violence. Take gay marriage, do you see them getting violent over this? No, they're being reasonable and fighting through passive means, and I beleive they will win this way.

Terrorism is a knee-jerk reaction used by people who really don't care. They just want to hit things.

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

What about India? They broke through colonialism without becoming violent. And Womens rights were won through communication, rather than violence.

Well, there were actually also violent confrontations in India, and some suffraget actions were at least semi violent (most violence came from the police). Many other processes of liberation would not have come through at all without violence or breaking rules or laws (slave revolution on Haiti, South Africa, Angola, Mosambique, Guinea Bissau, Zimbabwe, French Indochina, Algeria, even the USA itself and many, many others ).
And in this case its hurrying, it is a matter of saving lives. While politicians talk, and talk and talk and always give in for economic interests, the whales keep on dying. We can not wait until the last whale is dead.

As I said, if politicians had done their jobs properly, Sea Shephard had not been needed.

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Terrorism is a knee-jerk reaction used by people who really don't care. They just want to hit things.

Terrorism is many times a counter reaction to violence or other forms of pressure. And strangely it is not called terrorism when states or corporations obliterate people and environment for political or economic reasons.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Terrorism is many times a counter reaction to violence or other forms of pressure. And strangely it is not called terrorism when states or corporations obliterate people and environment for political or economic reasons.

Because terrorism is politically motivated.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by redpaintednavi

Well, historically seen, if noone ever broke injust laws we would still have slavery, men owning their women, many countries would be completey destroyed, others would be in the hands of colonialists or corporations. Sometimes laws must be broken in order to protect lives and rights.

Not really. Not owning slaves was never illegal.
People didn't go around killing people who did. I know in America, slavery caused a civil war, but in the UK and Europe, it was abolished through political pressure making supporting it unsustainable for any government. There was no violence involved. Same for women's rights, the end of apartheid (where any violence would have made the situation worse instead of resolving it...)

And in this particular case, Japan has no business at all in going around hunting whales down in Antarctica thousands of kilometers from Japan. It is just insane.

Like I said, I do agree in part, I agree here... but I say that anyone who turns to violence and endangering lives is a bad as the people they are trying to stop.

[Isard]

Actually, its a common misconception that we fought a war over slavery. It was about states rights. Slavery was more of an afterthought really. Civil rights however were won through rational means.
You think violence is the only answer. You want Governments to get violent to speed up processes that take time. You need to learn patience. You cannot bend rules and laws when you see fit.

[redpaintednavi]

Originally Posted by Aihwa

Actually, its a common misconception that we fought a war over slavery.

Well, sometimes slaves used force to liberate themselves, and that was also against the law (as it was to protect runaway slaves). And on Haiti the slaves indeed fought a war to be free, and also in the cases of the Maroons of Jamaica and in Guyana (some of them actually became free and were left alone).
And USA as a state is in itself a result of war and violence.

Originally Posted by Aihwa

You think violence is the only answer. You want Governments to get violent to speed up processes that take time. You need to learn patience. You cannot bend rules and laws when you see fit.

I do not think violence is the only answer. It is just that the answer is different depending on the circumstances. Some fights is won without weapons (and I agree that it is the best solution) but sometimes it is very difficult or even impossible to achieve anything without at least some element of violence or force.

And rules and laws are many times instigated by opressors against the opressed. If the opressed always followed such laws then they would stay opressed forever.

But in the case of the OP: let us not forget that Sea Shephard do not attack anyone with guns, explosive bombs, cannons or other lethal weapons. But sometimes both Sea Shephard and Greenpece have been met with harpoon cannons and in the case of Rainbow warrior, with bombs.

Also one must remember that the objective of Sea Shepherd is not to hurt or injure whalers or fishermen, their main goal is to protect and save lives.