Ignoring Won't Take Us Out Of The Problem.

[ZenitYerkes]

What's important nowadays for parties? To just point themselves under the neverending rain of insults? To win the elections? To reach the power?

In Spain, we've got almost the same two-party system as in the UK or the US. And they do the same, it's all about winning or losing; and if you lose it's about being on the second place and show the winner is wrong to reach the power in the next four years.

What debates we've got in our Parliament? There are no problems put in there: just an useless mutual insult chatter which basically states "You are wrong, I am right and would do better if I were in your place". They say that when you don't have the solutions for a problem you don't care about it and try to appear you're right using the appropriate arguments and hiding the rest.

We've got to fear, not the ideologies, the parties or the law, but the powerful men who are proved wrong. They can direct us to ways we're not intended to go, just because of their stubbornness.

You want examples? Let's talk about the crisis; in my country the director of the Central Bank offered the President a plan, two years ago. "We've got a better plan Mr. Director" said the President "But it'll be helpful to have an optional plan, Mr. President" replied the director. Anyway, the stubborn president said "We can get by on our own". Mr. President didn't want anybody have better ideas than his; and now Spain is still suffering hard from the economic crisis.

Oh, you thought the rest of the parties had better ideas too? They just pointed out the President as guilty and called him too many things, none of them worth remembering. Anyway, you can ask them (and I did ask my parent, who works in the Deputy Congress) if they have anything else, but it seems that they just want to reach the power by disqualifying their opponents.

So please, government, don't ignore the facts just to keep your asses in your places. We haven't chosen you for that.

[rapunzel77]

Oh Zenit, I wish it were that simple to tell our silly leaders to listen to us. They DON'T. Look at my own country. There was poll after poll, phone calls, protests, etc, etc from many people here in the US that said that they didn't want this health care bill. We are a country of 300 million, I think. Nationalized Healthcare can work in a smaller country but not a very large one like the US. We don't have the money to pay for this. Do you realize that the US is 12 trillion dollars in debt and they just keep adding to the tab???? The numbers don't add up. However, our silly and stupid leaders pushed it through anyway. They are very delusional and at times malicious. They are soooo drunk with power.

The opposition to the current majority party is just as bad. Neither side has any good solutions to the problems we are facing. They don't offer anything. All they do is talk past each other, demonizing the other side, etc. Its ridiculous. Personally, I would like to see every incumbent removed from office. They are the worst bunch of crooks. They steal from all of us here in the US. I'm sure that is also true in other countries as well.

[zongtseng]

The US political system is an absolute disaster, and if things don't change soon, they are going to take down the whole country with them. As you say, both sides are equally terrible, with no ideas and no desire to improve anything but their own ego and bank account.

My own personal idea is that we need a complete reboot. If you are in Congress now, you may not run for re-election. If you have ever been endorsed by a political party, you may not run. I'm not sure if all new blood would be better or not, but it certainly couldn't make things any worse. At this rate, China will own this country soon.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by zongtseng

The US political system is an absolute disaster, and if things don't change soon, they are going to take down the whole country with them. As you say, both sides are equally terrible, with no ideas and no desire to improve anything but their own ego and bank account.

My own personal idea is that we need a complete reboot. If you are in Congress now, you may not run for re-election. If you have ever been endorsed by a political party, you may not run. I'm not sure if all new blood would be better or not, but it certainly couldn't make things any worse. At this rate, China will own this country soon.

Totally Agree . Unfortunately, I think China pretty much owns this country. They are our biggest creditor. We are soooo deep in debt. $12 trillion and climbing!! This can't last. It just can't. I completely agree that we need a reboot. Kick EVERYONE out. I hate to say it, but that also might include the president who isn't helping either.

We'll collapse eventually and have a chance to start again. It happens to all societies.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Shatnerpossum

We'll collapse eventually and have a chance to start again. It happens to all societies.

Touche.

[Grif]

Originally Posted by Shatnerpossum

We'll collapse eventually and have a chance to start again. It happens to all societies.

I wish it wouldn't have to come to this. Also I think we need to start a new country, an island nation, we could even call it Pandora. I'd give it maybe 3 generations before it broke down with the message lost though.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by Grif

I wish it wouldn't have to come to this. Also I think we need to start a new country, an island nation, we could even call it Pandora. I'd give it maybe 3 generations before it broke down with the message lost though.

Is there any hope for humanity? History suggests our biological nature will always prevent us from becoming the perfect Na'vi.

[Fosus]

Originally Posted by Spock

Is there any hope for humanity? History suggests our biological nature will always prevent us from becoming the perfect Na'vi.

We need to find a way to develop Eywa..

[Jamza]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

In Spain, we've got almost the same two-party system as in the UK or the US.

The UK doesn't have a 2 party system. There are many parties. The two biggest are Labour and the Conservatives, and then you have other parties like the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the BNP (*shudders*) and even the Monster Raving Loony Party. You can even go further and look at the local parties such as the Scottish National Party (Scotland) and Plaid-Cymru (Wales).


In the UK, we are approaching a general election (predicted to be May 6th-ish) and the smaller parties who understand the public seem to actually have a better chance than ever this year. Many distrust the current flock of MP's (Members of Parliament) after many scandals (such as them abusing their expenses) and this hasn't been a problem for the smaller parties which will hopefully make more people vote for them.

The danger now is a hung parliament, where no party has a majority and an agreement must be made between the parties on how to make decisions.

[Boomachucka]

Originally Posted by rapunzel77

Oh Zenit, I wish it were that simple to tell our silly leaders to listen to us. They DON'T. Look at my own country. There was poll after poll, phone calls, protests, etc, etc from many people here in the US that said that they didn't want this health care bill. We are a country of 300 million, I think. Nationalized Healthcare can work in a smaller country but not a very large one like the US. We don't have the money to pay for this. Do you realize that the US is 12 trillion dollars in debt and they just keep adding to the tab???? The numbers don't add up. However, our silly and stupid leaders pushed it through anyway. They are very delusional and at times malicious. They are soooo drunk with power.

Not posting this to start an e-fight, but the whole health care bit will save a lot of people a lot of money. It's my understanding that in the 'States insurance companies simply gouge customers on health care because it's absolutely unregulated- much of their practices are regarded as nearly criminal. Additionally, the cost of healthcare in the U.S. is increasing at approximately 3 times the speed of earnings increases, so with each passing year hundreds of thousands of people lose out on necessary, basic things such as a family doctor. The size of the country doesn't matter because you collect taxes from everyone; The management of the money is what makes the difference.

Just my 2 cents.

But to the original issue posed by the OP of the thread: I think it's quite sad that many political parties and representatives are very much out for themselves and will do nothing for the people out of their own good will. Rather, they'll make a case that agrees with public opinion in an effort to get the most votes and further discredit their rivals. Crappy stuff. It's all about the game and their reputation.

[ZenitYerkes]

Originally Posted by Boomachucka

Not posting this to start an e-fight, but the whole health care bit will save a lot of people a lot of money. It's my understanding that in the 'States insurance companies simply gouge customers on health care because it's absolutely unregulated- much of their practices are regarded as nearly criminal. Additionally, the cost of healthcare in the U.S. is increasing at approximately 3 times the speed of earnings increases, so with each passing year hundreds of thousands of people lose out on necessary, basic things such as a family doctor. The size of the country doesn't matter because you collect taxes from everyone; The management of the money is what makes the difference.

Just my 2 cents.

But to the original issue posed by the OP of the thread: I think it's quite sad that many political parties and representatives are very much out for themselves and will do nothing for the people out of their own good will. Rather, they'll make a case that agrees with public opinion in an effort to get the most votes and further discredit their rivals. Crappy stuff. It's all about the game and their reputation.

In fact, the whole medical system change plan is based on the Spanish system, the Social Security. You can either have a sprained ankle or a heart attack, for an annual tax you can afford both treatments no matter your salary. My mother is ill from breast cancer and she just pays 10 extra euros for the medication and treatment.

And also, there's a huge amount of people from Northern Europe and the US that come to Spain just to use our system's facilities.

Obama is not stupid at all putting that plan on going. It's an extra tax yes, but you don't have to care anymore about expensive and private health insurance programs.

We might better make a thread to discuss this properly, no?

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by Shatnerpossum

We'll collapse eventually and have a chance to start again. It happens to all societies.

I immediately thought of Avatar-Forums and Tree-of-Souls when I read that.

...But anyway, back to discussion.

[ZenitYerkes]

About the collapse.

I believe and can prove the existence of a cycling nature in every single aspect of natural and human processes. Like, the water cycle, the predator-prey balance, the depressive and euphoric cycles, the financial crisis, the rise and fall of the different empires,... We all work by cycles, and follow more or less this scheme (up-down-up-down-...)

Our society is no different. Now we're reaching the highest point, but once we'd reached the top it will be all the way downwards. A nuclear war, famines, crisis even bigger than the Great Crash,... Some of the wide range of possibilities.

But the problem with that theory is that you can't know with precision in which state we are now and the "zoom level", this is, imagine we're already headed to the bottom, but we're slightly going up to keep going down later. If the time scale or "zoom level" is set properly, it might look like a little perturbation in the line.

Anyway. I believe that if the cycle theory is correct, then the collapse will take place after a great development phase.