Do You Believe In God?

[ZenitYerkes]

Now we're discussing about observation; so I'm gonna post how the process goes.

1 - Unique reality: this is the previous stage to observation; unique reality is just everything, without making any kind of difference or interpretation. A person who just saw this unique reality won't see the difference between a wall and another, a blue or red car, or even between solids and gases; this person would see everything that exists, nothing else.

2 - Observation: it means to receive information from the unique reality; limited information because we've got just 5 senses and those cannot perceive every single aspect on every place of reality, for example you cannot know the sound a tree makes when it falls unless you're near enough.

3 - Rationalization: now we've got the data we have to "encode" the information with abstract symbols so we can handle these concepts; such as images, words, letters, drawings,... The rationalization part means also to differentiate in the unique reality so we can put the appropriate names to its pieces (house, walls, bricks, concrete).

4 - Interpretation: this is where the fun stuff begins. From the information we've been given we add all the ideas we've been given throughout our lifetime. For example, if you see a woman with a large scarf around her head, you'll deduce she's Muslim although you haven't received that information (there isn't a great banner on her back saying "Muslim"). Of if you see a cross on the top of a building, you interpret it's a church.

5- Theorization: From all the data, plus our interpretations; we make our theories about how the events happened, what caused them, what consequences they've got, how to react,... See, and just to keep the religious touch, let's say we see a tanned man with a big mustache slapping a woman whose head is wrapped in a black scarf. That's the evidence. Now we interpret it: they're Muslims and he's maltreating his wife (this isn't absolutely correct, however). And one of the theories that could follow could be: "Muslims are violent people who maltreat their wives" or "Islam is a bad religion".

Am I right? Probably not because I don't have enough information and have prejudged a vast group.

6 - Proving our theories: Let's say I'm a stubborn person. I like to see if I am correct on my theories or just plain racist. For this step we'd need to repeat 1, 2 and 3 in different scenarios, so I go to Saudi Arabia, visit the capital and interview and see if we've got the same situation there. And I eventually find I was wrong and that most of the men there love their wives, for example.

7 - Diffusion: Now imagine what I've seen is the opposite, as if it was a religious habit to slap their wives. I'd get out of the country and publish a vast article saying that "we should ban this religion and eliminate it from our country since blah blah blah". This article is using the same symbols we talked about in step 3, needed to transmit the ideas and concepts we've perceived correctly.

Now let's apply the same to God.

We see life, the world and everything that surrounds us and identify them (we get out the interpretation factor, let's say we've been taught no religion). We don't see God, at least not directly; but this could be due to the lack of information.

Imagine we've been brought the evidence we need to know there is a God: for example, we've read the Bible and wondered who's that guy that appears constantly on it. The source of information about God usually comes from tradition and culture; but not usually from experience. If it's the first case, we'll have to rely on the person who has written it.

Now we've got the information, we begin to make our question: does God exist? From that we can say "Yes" or "No"; but both need to argue our answers. Unfortunately, we cannot prove our theories here without going to the Holy Books (in which authors we would need to rely) or ask people who have supposedly experienced God; it's almost impossible to prove the existence of God with actual facts. Unlike the Muslims and doing a trip to Saudi Arabia, we cannot go wherever He/She/It lives and say "Hey God, I need to ask you some questions buddy!"

And this is exactly why religion is a quite difficult to talk about topic.

That's why I am agnostic, it's just about not playing with the unknown and let it be. I cannot say if God exists or doesn't; it's just something we will never know and we can only wonder about it. What doesn't mean I have stopped thinking about religion, though; if not I wouldn't be here having this discussion with you and I'll be just stating the usual "I am right you're wrong" we hear at religious debates.

[Woodsprite]

Originally Posted by ZenitYerkes

And this is exactly why religion is a quite difficult to talk about topic.

That's why I prefer discussion within doctrine of religion, not from without. If from without, we'll be repeating age-old theology classes. The study of doctrine within each religion, however, is something I find much more fascinating.