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[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Fair enough in my opinion, especially considering her job. Anyway, she WAS right about the marines.

...it is NEVER okay to disrespect someone for not having the same level of education as yourself. NEVER.

Not having the same education doesn't mean anything except they don't have the same education, and it has a very classist edge of snobbery to it. Not everyone can AFFORD to go to university, even if they wanted to. That doesn't mean they are stupid, it doesn't mean they are idiots, it just means that they didn't have the resources. Look at the recent trouble in Britain with students protesting that they can't afford the higher tuition fees - I highly doubt they are idiots just because they lack the money.

And let us never forget that the poorer people in society are the main sources of soliders, just because it's a regularly paying job that gets them out of the situation they were born into.

If that's the way Grace rolls, that's fine. That's the character, and it fits in with her general misanthropic attitude towards humanity. But it's not a good thing. It's a serious flaw and it's a prejudice towards those with less privilege than herself. I appreciate that side of her, as it makes her a flawed human being, but I don't agree with it and I cannot respect that attitude in the slightest.

Originally Posted by Human No More

Maybe Jake isn't as straightforward as the others there, but I don't think the whole remark about 'fighting for freedom' should be taken that seriously because it always seems more cynical/sarcastic than anything to me.
When the marines are people like wainfleet, their motivation is obvious, and trying to justify them is never going to make any caring person sympathetic to them.

"Back on Earth, these guys were Army-dogs, Marines, fighting for freedom. But here they are just hired guns, working for the company," is what I believe Jake roughly said. He didn't sound sarcastic to me. It's also clearly influenced how fandom views the marines, which is an attitude that ignores any chance for them to be interesting, complex, flawed PEOPLE obeying orders. In my own canon, they are, because Jake has no idea what he is talking about. He hasn't asked them, he's just made assumptions. And assumptions that don't even make sense if one actually looks at what professional soldiers do.

Originally Posted by Human No More

Well, she DID love him... but what I meant was that maybe she didn't realise just HOW different it was for humans, and just expected mating to be for life. There's a good reason those lines afterwards were cut, I think.

Actually, I thought the lines "we're mated for life" weren't cut, but it's been a while since I saw that bit of canon. And Sothis has argued my point very clearly, although I'd add that I don't see Jake as the kind of person who would KNOWINGLY marry a girl he loved when he KNEW that there was a spot on the next shuttle back to Earth with his name on it. He's got more integrity than that, and he clearly worships the ground on which Neytiri walks. He wouldn't be that much of a cad to her.

So, yeah.

Originally Posted by Sothis

That doesn't change the fact that she basically robbed Jake of his freedom of choice. Even if you're sure Jake WOULD HAVE said yes, that should've been his choice to make. As it was, Jake didn't GIVE her his future freely; she TOOK it from him.

This. This so, SO much.