How much Freedom?

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by Banefull

I am not out to defend the status quo. I think something has gone horribly wrong in the last century also. What I am up in arms against is the idea that "society only exists as an entity that is out to get you." I am here to defend the idea that we can have a good mass society that doesn't resort to extremes such as communism.

No, not communism, but social democracy. If we insist on keeping mass society the gap between rich and poor must shrink. Think something like France or Canada. Opposed to what many people seem to believe (at least in the US), as the income disparity in a society decreases, people become more free. Again, take a look at France and Canada, and compare them to the US. The people in those countries are much freer than we are, mainly because they've learned to keep corporations and special interests in check, instead of letting them bend us all over and have their way with us, as we're currently doing in the US. Which is why I pity groups like the Tea Party. They want more freedom, but then turn around and defend corporations, the very people who are taking their freedom away.

But then again, that's regarding mass society. My personal belief is that society should become more localized, like some of the small villages that remain in Italy. Social bonds should be about quality, not quantity. That's why I support neo-tribalism. My utopia would be a world of "techno-tribes," sort of a tribalized version of the Venus Project. But to get their would involve cleansing the world of a lot of evils, which I am not sure we have the power to do at the moment.

Originally Posted by Banefull

I trust those whom I see as having the proper motivations. I trust those who are motivated by love. I still question what they say as they can still make mistakes; however, I do trust them. There are bad politicians, organizations, and officials motivated by greed. There are also good politicians, organizations, and officials who have genuine interests to serve. This is why we need a good education -- so we can determine who is properly motivated by love or improperly by greed.

I have extreme doubt about how many honest politicians are left. Sure, I bet plenty run, but how many honest ones actually end up getting elected? Or how many of them (the honest ones who manage to beat the odds) manage to stay honest and uncorrupt once they reach DC? The average yearly income of a US congressman is somewhere around $910,000. Now keep in mind that their actually salary itself is $165,000. Now, that other $745,000 doesn't just materialize out of thin air, does it?

Originally Posted by Banefull

This isn't what ancient tribal societies were like. What you describe is something akin to anarchy. Someone has to have the oversight to put together all of the factors of production -- land, labor, and capital. This individual existed even in ancient societies otherwise known as the leader of chieftan (plus a body of elders in some cases). He was the central power in all of this.

It wasn't as extreme as today. The leaders/councils of a tribe were more like soft overseers/moderators, not the strong rulers we have today. The people they effected with their decisions were the same people they interacted with on a daily basis/depended on. Plus they were also in a position where they would directly experience the consequences of their decisions. It wasn't like today where our leaders are completely out of touch with the people they rule over. Though this is really getting into auroraglacialis' territory. She's the one you should go to if you want more specific information on the matter. Either way their societies were both freer and more stable/healthy than ours.

And I actually wouldn't count out anarchy just yet (at least in localized societies). Real anarchy is not the chaos this culture wants you to think it is (that is, once all the ills of society are purged). Catalonia was real anarchy in action.

Originally Posted by Banefull

Things have gone wrong in the past few decades or centuries. More and more people with improper motivations have come to power; however, the good is still out there. As individuals, we need to practice better judgement and take the time to find out for ourselves who is properly motivated to serve; not just be satisfied with what the media says (FOX news *cough* *cough*, and yes I lean slightly towards liberal ).

Tru dat. If we ever plan on change coming to anything at all, the first thing that must happen is that this filth that's being pumped out on the airways day-in and day-out must either be ignored, or preferably silenced once and for all.