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Originally Posted by Human No More
You really don't understand what I mean at all.
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I don't either.
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Originally Posted by Human No More
If humans remain stuck on Earth, resources WILL eventually run out, even with minimal use.
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Originally Posted by Human No More
It is perfectly possible to utilise existing resources to last for as long as the Earth will.
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Conflict?
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Originally Posted by Human No More
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Originally Posted by auroraglacialis
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Originally Posted by Human No More
Yes, I value wellbeing and quality of live above the environment, both are important and can easily be balanced (and the entire point ism, if you don't want such things, you don't have to take advantage of them), but they are not mutually exclusive.
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How do you want to balance them really? To run a car, you need fuel, to build a car, you need materials, to make an electric car, you need different materials, so feed more people, you need more land,.... |
Population again? I thought I already explained my point there. |
No one talked about the population.
This was about balancing environment and your definition of "wellbeing and quality of life"
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As for your point about the population, it's still rather unclear to me.
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Originally Posted by Human No More
Population has to be part of the balance. I would guess you're probably opposed to space exploration (more technology) but it allows growth without overpopulation.
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Originally Posted by Human No More
Why such a large population? It is already too large, it would make more sense to stabilise it at a lower population with better quality of life.
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Originally Posted by Human No More
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Originally Posted by auroraglacialis
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Originally Posted by Human No More
We don't have any special responsibility, just like nonsentient animals don't worry about animals they hunt to extinction, they just avoid causing destruction for its own sake.
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This is not coherent - you state a bit above, that "Humans are capable of adapting, which is their only true strength, but means they are capable of much greater success than other species, in addition to sentience." - If that is the way humans differe from other animals, if that is the characteristic that justifies humans to exploit the planet and consume 40% of its photosynthetic capacity, how can you then say, that despite this, they do not have any special responsability??? |
Another species could have done the same and likely eventually would have if they hadn't been beaten to it - possibly even reached sentience. |
Just because a nonexistent thing "could have done the same", doesn't make us any less responsible or our actions.
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Originally Posted by Human No More
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Originally Posted by auroraglacialis
Also, "ignoring one in favour of the other is as bad as the other" is not true. The world can go on very well without cellphones and cars, actually it will probably do better, while humans and cell phones do depend on the world around them. Without cellphones and cars, people in 1000 or 10.000 years will still be able to live in Spain and breathe air and drink water and eat plants there. If that goes away (climate change is going to turn many areas into a desert, water is polluted, nuclear waste is endangering the storage sites...), humans will not live in comfort anymore. In fact, this would probably kill 95% of the people with the remaining ones fighting over a few remaining liveable spots.
See - one of the two things can exist without the other, the other cannot. So if you really do favour that choice towards a higher "quality of life" over the environment, and that IS what you have said above - I really wonder how you can say of yourself, that you feel close to the NA'Vi. For them, the choice would be utterly clear.
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Wow, this is what I mean... You really don't understand what I mean at all, not to mention that was harsh, nice try at claiming moral high ground though, but it won't work.
The Na'vi don't have what is on Earth, but they have OTHER things, things humans will likely never have. Those are what make it worth it for them. We don't have those. Would the Na'vi want to regress to before they rode ikran? Would they want to lose the ability to make tsaheylu? 
We don't have those  , so we only have what we can make of life. There is NO point to life if all you do is just exist. That is why I think we can actually improve, but without sacrificing biodiversity. |
You're completely missing the point here. Tsaheylu or riding an Ikran are in complete harmony with the nature. Cars and cellphones are not.
As for "not everything exists to make life easier, but to make it HAPPIER", unlike Ikran and Tsaheylu, cars and cellphones are just dead pieces of random material.
I bet that everything the Na'vi have created, every tool, every instrument, every piece of clothing, is merely for making things easier. Definitely not to bring happiness simply by existing. Happiness comes from the contact with other living beings. For example: Humans can live in miserable conditions and even be happy, as long as they have a community or just a single friend to share everything with. Having a car wouldn't help the slightest bit.
11-24-2010, 09:09 PM
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