Why Cameron Failed.

[ScottWashburn]

The issue of How Futuristic to Make It is one that all SF writers have to deal with (I'm an SF writer myself). The problem is that if you try to get too clever and imaginative then you spend way too much time explaining all your clever little ideas instead of telling the story. Cameron (wisely, I think) stayed away from too much clever, futuristic stuff. Still, this forces him to use some anachronistic dialogue from time to time:

Jake describes Mo'at as "Dragon Lady" How many know this is a reference to a 1940s-50s cartoon strip titled "Terry and the Pirates"?

The remote bulldozer operator says that Jake is "Doing the Funky Chicken". That was a short-lived dance craze from the 1980s.

After finishing the destruction of Hometree, Quaritch says to his pilot: "Let's Boogie." Another 1980s reference.

And yet if Cameron had had Jake say: "Velociraptor Woman" about Mo'at (a character form a 2140s cartoon series Jake watched as a child), it would have meant nothing to audiences in 2010.

It's always a challenge.

Still, he could have added some non-American accents to the mix of RDA personnel. The only noticeable accent in the whole movie is Quaritch's southern drawl.

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by ScottWashburn

Jake describes Mo'at as "Dragon Lady" How many know this is a reference to a 1940s-50s cartoon strip titled "Terry and the Pirates"?

Not me. I had to look up jujubees as well. And Ranger Rick.

[Sothis]

I always thought "dragon lady" was more of a generic epithet and not necessarily a reference to any particular cultural staple. It's a personality trope, sort of like "angry midget." Even now, when people use it, they aren't making a reference to some 40s cartoon strip, so why is it a problem if Jake uses it? It didn't trip me up at all to hear him use the phrase, I just thought "why yes, Mo'at IS a scary, middle-aged matriarch."

[Fkeu'itan]

*Response to the OP, haven't read all responses yet.*

In a way, I think Cameron has failed as well. But not necessarily in the way you're talking about.

I am with Banefull on the matter of the story's delivery.

I commend him for making the decision to add these kinds of scenes. For me, as Banefull also said, it made things more realistic. Things in life are rarely blatantly 2-sided, and these added scenes really added a 3rd dimension to the Na'vi for me, he showed that they're not only a loving, kind race, but they're willing to make a stand to save what they have if they're pushed enough. It gave them a whole new level of more depth and strength for me, personally.

No, I believe where Cameron really failed was in the deliverance of the message.

A lot of people - in fact, most of the people here - have claimed that at one point, they really felt a passion not just for the Na'vi and the amazingly beautiful place that is Pandora, but also for this planet. People who said they wanted to change both their own world and the wider one, people who said they wanted to do something about the dark path we're all heading down and start caring more not just for our world, just as the Na'vi do so well for theirs. People who were strong, resiliant and who felt practically invincible. Now I can see few people who really wish for this any more... Who feel these things any more.
For those who do still feel something, they don't actually want to ACT on it. Or feel powerless to do so. All the while, our world keeps on dying and humanity keeps on going into a vertical nose-dive.

THAT is where Cameron failed.

The story remains the same, but the message was lost.

(I guess this is really a message from the blind, to the blind, as everything I said was hugely hypocritical - but dammit, i'm trying.)

[joeylovesgaia]

Originally Posted by Isard

So he just compared the Na'vi clan leaders to a maniacal dictator that tortured their own people?

Nice.

Analogy backfire.

[joeylovesgaia]

Originally Posted by SaphirJD

Dont Think so. That makes a good Villain a good Villain - That even some people are rooting with him/her/them.

Villains that are only hated are just poor and dumb ones.

You may have a point. As a kid, I knew that those cartoon villains with their "Legion of Doom" and "Brotherhood of Evil" were unrealistic. Not just physically impossible, as most superhuman characters are, but psychologically. Bad people tend to come up with excuses for what they do, or just think that there is no good or evil.

At the same time, what colonizers have done and still do is horrifying beyond anything Avatar showed. Humans can be very evil indeed.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by ScottWashburn

Jake describes Mo'at as "Dragon Lady" How many know this is a reference to a 1940s-50s cartoon strip titled "Terry and the Pirates"?

I second what Sothis said, I didn't know that, but I HAVE heard it used as a term for a fierce woman, so if it did survive 60 years (which I didn't know), who's to say it won't still be used in another ~140?

The remote bulldozer operator says that Jake is "Doing the Funky Chicken". That was a short-lived dance craze from the 1980s.

To be fair, I did think this was just some random thing
Also, I heard that apparently 'Ranger Rick; is a reference too, I didn't know that one until someone mentioned that it was.

Still, he could have added some non-American accents to the mix of RDA personnel. The only noticeable accent in the whole movie is Quaritch's southern drawl.

Most of the marines never speak, neither do most of the avatars or scientists, so I'm fine with that.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993

A silly dream I have is to see Mcdonalds burn to ashes some day in the future. If that doesn't happen, at least we might find a place with no fast food or other exploting corparations in the after life.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

Actually, I think Cameron just got lazy and very Hollywood - Hollywood is not very good at recognize that other places exist aside from the US, that in the future the US might actually not be a superpower any more. It's purely an American-centric thing, a Western Hemisphere-centric thing.

Possibly but like others have said, if he made everyone sound futuristic then he would spend most of his time trying to explain that than telling the story. Cameron doesn't seem to spend much time on costumes and accents for people in his movies. Look at Aliens for instance. It is also supposed to be set in the future but they all look and act like Americans (except for the woman who had a Spanish accent).

And ahaha, oh dear, re: your classmates. I do understand the sentiment, though - when I was on a school-trip to Russia, we all just soaked up the local food like anything. it was awesome and lovely (god, SO NICE)...and then, yes, when we saw a McDonalds we descended en masse because we were homesick, and it was familiar and something from home that we could trust. And I say this as someone who loathes and despises McDonalds, and who can only eat it once a year, if that. We - and we're Australian, mind you - just wanted something familiar.

Lol, I understood why they were doing it but it is irksome because of the setting. The arches didn't need to be within the town. It could have been placed outside of it. Oh well, I have seen a picture of the tourist trap that is close to the pyramids in Egypt. There is a distinctly KFC sign amid all the shops.

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan

A lot of people - in fact, most of the people here - have claimed that at one point, they really felt a passion not just for the Na'vi and the amazingly beautiful place that is Pandora, but also for this planet. People who said they wanted to change both their own world and the wider one, people who said they wanted to do something about the dark path we're all heading down and start caring more not just for our world, just as the Na'vi do so well for theirs. People who were strong, resiliant and who felt practically invincible. Now I can see few people who really wish for this any more... Who feel these things any more.

I'm sure there are people who still feel it but it seems that their passion has waned. That happens. The message is still there for those who will see it but it might not be readily apparent that it is doing any good. Sometimes it takes years for the message to come to fruition. Its like planting a garden. You plant the seed. At first it doesn't look like anything is happening but eventually, with enough time and care, a green shoot will rise.

For those who do still feel something, they don't actually want to ACT on it. Or feel powerless to do so. All the while, our world keeps on dying and humanity keeps on going into a vertical nose-dive.

Again, this is where patience needs to be used. It won't be readily apparent. Nothing ever is. The seed is planted. So, water it. Take care of it. Make sure it gets plenty of sun. Then it will grow.

[Elyannia]

Quaritch was the first villian that I actually didn't want to win :3 I usually always root for the villian.

[LOVEavatar]

Originally Posted by Elyannia

Quaritch was the first villian that I actually didn't want to win :3 I usually always root for the villian.

DARTH VADER!!!

Although Mr Smith was a complete ass throughout the whole trilogy... he was still SO awesome

[Tsawke`Iheyu]

Slavery and rape !? Man, what !?

The only ones who fail are people who think that AVATAR is inspired from war movies or Pocahontas or other stuff like that... It's like putting me in the scene saying : "No, AVATAR isn't about thinkin' on how we should NOT do some things, AVATAR is about how we do and did things..." Who cares ?! AVATAR is not about Irak or rape or slavery... We are here to learn.

[TxonTirea]

This thread is still going? Christ... It was answered long ago.