The RDA strikes back?

[Woodsprite]

Cameron may surprise us all with something we've never, ever contemplated before.

[Empty Glass]

As long as it's good, that's what I would like to see.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Empty Glass

Anyone know if the ISVs would be visible from orbit? I'm wondering if other clans that weren't part of the battle are at least aware of some strange presence up in the Pandoran night sky.

HNM, I was also thinking about how there's already other ISVs on the way with too few soldiers to mount a real invasion of Pandora. What I was wondering (and you may have to pardon me for not having as good a background knowledge) is if a whole new kind of transport would be sent from Earth with the explicit purpose of taking back control of [some area of] Pandora by force, carrying enough mercenaries and weapons to get the job done. Of course, such an event would be far in the future, but if the RDA wants to get unobtanium that badly, I'd think they would try and find a way to do that while simultaneously working against all the allegations of human rights abuses (erm...Na'vi rights abuses) on Earth. I don't think they'd give up without trying to get at Pandora again, and they'd probably prepare themselves for fighting the anti-air defenses that they left behind.

there are only 12 ISVs, each one costing many, many billions. Their cargo and passenger capacity is very limited, the vast majority of their structure is taken up by life support, power, cooling and propulsion systems. They are not capable of any sort of invasion.
As I mentioned in the other thread, then presumably the most ideal way to send evidence of what had happened back to earth would be via a radio transmission as the RDA would not be able to control it as with the superluminal communications (in addition to carrying much more data). This would take 4.4 years to reach Earth, but would arrive well ahead of the returning ISV. After that point, when what has happened becomes clear, the RDA will lose their license for violations of their contract and there will be no more ISVs other than the ones that were already launched, which will contain a standard resupply mission.

[Tsawke`Iheyu]

Hell's Gate belongs to the Na'vi now. I think that with a little help from Jake, Norm and Max they could use it as a defense point in times of war. And of course, to keep in touch with EVERY SINGLE aircraft that enters the Pandoran airspace. The Na'vi could also "learn more than they needed to" about us and also use technology in a positive way.

I doubt very bad that Selfridge will have a sudden change of heart, but I think that he will try to fight the "rules" to change. We probably might see if in a good or bad way, because we know from our history and the present time, that the rules are made to be broken, most of the times with a bad purpose. The RDA will return, better armed, better prepared, but with a little surprise from the pandorans. One essential reason : "Use virus to kill virus".

[Советский меч]

I think Cameron will really put the Navi to the test. Maybe lay Pandora out with orbital strikes? Or just bomb the place beyond all recognition. That may be their only hope If they want to control the planet long enough to get what they want. Maybe the RDA returning home will tell the UN that the natives became hostile and persuade them to allow the use of WMD.

[Woodsprite]

Nope. WMDs are pretty much the "no-no" word concerning Pandora, assuming you mean nukes. The unobtanium is the ultimate goal, and it'll be destroyed if WMDs are used.

I think we've gone over this a few times...

[Советский меч]

Not necessarily, most likely the bombs will detonate above ground leaving minerals deep underground alone but still exterminating all threats on the ground. They could use agent orange to clear the jungle and then wipe out opposition with precision bombing strikes. But that would be to easy.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Советский медве

Not necessarily, most likely the bombs will detonate above ground leaving minerals deep underground alone but still exterminating all threats on the ground. They could use agent orange to clear the jungle and then wipe out opposition with precision bombing strikes. But that would be to easy.

Aaaaand then their funding would be cut due to outrage back on Earth. *shrugs* I just can't see there being another war. Not really. Certainly not with the mass destruction you're talking about.

[Woodsprite]

I sort of agree with you both, there.^^ The funding would indeed be cut...


...but the job would get done. After the threats are eliminated, it won't matter how much funding is cut. They have all the time in the universe to mine all they want without any threats, and oh how the money will flow. They could quite literally become their own corporation where high-up officials in the business hold the majority of shares, where it won't matter if they have a fraction of their former shareholders supporting them or not. The amount of unobtanium mined from an inhostile region would be so massive, that the destruction they wreak won't matter.

In other words, creative destruction. Pissing off the shareholders for the gain of 100 times more profit than what they will lose is a damn-good bargain. A DAMN-good bargain.

[SnowRider]

This is a very interesting thread and this subject has been fodder for a lot of speculation amongst the writers of Avatar fanfic (myself included) since the movie came out.

It essentially boils down to this: what will be the human race's response to the events depicted in the first movie?

It isn't just the RDA and what they may (or may not) do in the sequel(s) but rather the whole human race and what the human race will do that is the real question here.

The answer to that question depends on the answer to another question: to what extent is the human race as a whole aware of what happened on Pandora and/or sympathetic to the Na'vi and their plight?

In other words, if word has leaked out about what happened on Pandora and/or Jake Sully sent some sort of a statement/report back to Earth explaining what happened and why he made the decisions he did and the human race becomes aware of that statement, then the RDA is toast.

If enough people see through their propaganda, then no matter what they say, people will not believe them and the human race's response to Jake and the Na'vi may very well be "We're sorry! We never meant this to happen and we want to make this right somehow."

(and when you get right down to it, it's not the human race necessarily that is important here, it's the Earth governments and/or the UN)

If the governments of Earth and/or the UN collectively decide that the RDA has blown it on Pandora, then a diplomatic solution to the whole situation might be in the offing.

If however the truth about what happened on Pandora is suppressed and/or most of the human race is ignorant of or otherwise unaware of what happened there, then the RDA might very well be able to convince the governments and/or UN to mount a full-on invasion of Pandora.

It would be essentially another war, on a much, much larger scale than the first one and a war that is by no means a certain victory for Jake and the Na'vi if it comes to Pandora.

In all probability, that would mean the end of Pandora and the Na'vi because I kind of doubt Eywa could fight back against a full-on military invasion against the armed might of the human race if the human race collectively decides the Unobtainium is too vital to walk away from and the only thing in their way is Eywa and the Na'vi.

Which will it be? Diplomacy or war? That's a question only James Cameron can answer (for now) but it is fun to read some of the speculation in the fanfics to see where fans of the film come down on this question.

[Human No More]

Stop trolling.
Firstly, the RDA don't have that level of weapons, There's a reason they had the marines - their contract only allows a reasonable level, for defence against animals, etc - deliberately antagonising the Na'vi was not planned for or intended for them to be allowed to.
Secondly, there is no technological capacity for orbital attacks, at all. The ISVs are cargo ships.
If you had read any background information at al, you'd know that the entire point is that the RDA can not harm the Na'vi. Their actions in Avatar were already enough to lose them their contract. Neither are 'precision bombing strikes' possible in the environment on Pandora - not to mention there are no aircraft, there is no infrastructure to support it, and the ISVs do not have anywhere near the capacity for any kind of attack.

Woodsprite - you're completely missing the point. The point is that their contract specifically prevents them from such things, and is the reason they have the marines in the first place as it is the most they can use. There won't be anything coming back AT ALL if they lose their contract.

I've mentioned before that all that is needed to be one is to send all the data on what happened back as a radio transmission - it still arrives almost 2 years ahead of the ISV, will be heard by everyone, and the RDA will have lost their contract by the time the ISV gets back. That's the point for not using the superluminal communication - that would be received by the RDA and therefore be suppressed, but a general transmission, any radio dish on Earth would receive. Once news it out it can never be suppressed.

Anyway - I will spell this out again.
A 'full on invasion' is not possible.
There are 12 ISVs - we can assume that due to needing 6 months acceleration from Earth each, 6 months is the VERY minimum spacing between them. Each one has a very small actual cargo capacity, likely around the same as a very large transport aircraft (e.g. An-225). Each one can carry maybe 100-200 passengers in total, but the ones already on the way to Pandora do NOT carry mostly marines, maybe 10-20 marines to replaces ones who were leaving. Even if an ISV WAS fully loaded with weapons, that would maybe be 4-5 scorpions OR 20 or so AMPsuits, and maybe 100-200 marines, but if it was caring any assembled vehicles then there would be no equipment for the marines.
Any vehicle, especially the scorpions, would need to be unloaded, assembled, and prepared before being any use - since a scorpion will not fit in a shuttle, it would need to be assembled on the ground (from multiple flights), even before being fuelled and armed. Of course, such vehicles use a LOT of fuel, which I haven't even mentioned so far, and would also take a lot of space, as well as effort.
Each ISV carries 2 shuttles. The shuttles are very vulnerable, especially now since the scientists will control Hell's Gate and all the anti-air defences. It is safe to assume there is nowhere else safe to land, between the Na'vi and the wildlife and plants of Pandora. Even if they did, than as I explained above, it would basically be a group of marines on foot, with minimal equipment.
It's not going to work.

[Fosus]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Firstly, the RDA don't have that level of weapons, There's a reason they had the marines - their contract only allows a reasonable level, for defence against animals, etc - deliberately antagonising the Na'vi was not planned for or intended for them to be allowed to.

Humanity depends on the Unobtanium. It will become an "any means necessary" operation if they can only possibly do that.

Which I kinda hope wont happen. Can't the humans just die off from the lack of Unobtanium. Though, That would mean no enemy.. so it's unlikely

[Советский меч]

I don't think anyone read the part where I said "that would be to easy" my entire point was that it WONT happen.

[BotanicalMedley]

I think it still depends on whether or not enough people give a dang about Pandora.

[Fosus]

If Unobtanium is as vital for the humanity as it was described in the orig. scripment. Then I'm sure there will be interest.