Time of Great Sorrow

[Ashen Key]

Something I've been pondering for a while...Jake sought out Toruk in order to unify the clans to try and kick the RDA off-planet (well, that and be able to get the Omaticaya's attention in order to help grace). Later, Jake says "the time of Great Sorrow was ending." And Neytiri says that her grandfather's grandfather also become Toruk Makto in a time of great sorrow. Following the pattern, it could be suggested that the other four Toruk Maktos ALSO unified the clans in their area for 'a time of great sorrow'.

Anyone have any idea what those times could actually be? I'm aware this is pure speculation, but I'm interested in what people can come up with. Beyond, uh, my half-joking suggestion that some of the previous Great Sorrows were ALSO invasions of aliens. Other aliens.

Any ideas?

[James of terra]

Yes, it could be other evil/different clan wars, civil unrest, a disaster of some sort. There could be other intelligent life form there too, that they had a war with. That is some of my thoughs for you.

[ISV Venture Star]

We don't know much about the Na'vi lifespan. But doesn't it seem possible that the time of great sorrow in which Neytiri's great-great grandfather was Toruk Makto could be happening right now, in the year 2011?

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by ISV Venture Star

We don't know much about the Na'vi lifespan. But doesn't it seem possible that the time of great sorrow in which Neytiri's great-great grandfather was Toruk Makto could be happening right now, in the year 2011?

How do you mean? And...six generations back land you way further back in time. For example, one of my grandfathers was born in the 20s - his grandfather could easily be another seventy odd years before that. With the Na'vi, you could be talking two hundred, maybe even closer to three hundred years, depending on life-span and when various children were conceived. The difference between 2154 and 2011 is 143.

I'm also not sure what Earth history at that point has to do with Pandora?

[ISV Venture Star]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

The difference between 2154 and 2011 is 143.

I'm also not sure what Earth history at that point has to do with Pandora?

My great-great-grandfather (on the paternal line) was in his 20s in 1881, 130 years ago. Given the uncertainty in Na'vi lifespan/breeding age I don't think that 143 years is much of a stretch.

I don't think it's of all that much significance. I just like the idea that the events of this 'time of great sorrow' could be playing out now as we speak.

[Human No More]

Interesting, but it doesn't have any real direct relevance to Earth.

Since historically, there has been conflict between Na'vi clans on at least a local scale before, I would guess that was likely something to do with at least some of them. On the other hand, Neytiri doesn't say anything about the actions of any previous Toruk Makto.

[Tsawke`Iheyu]

Agreed. In my vision, the time of great sorrow also includes the time when the first colony of "sky-people" established on Pandora and started to do dirty jobs in their environment.

[tm20]

could be either tribal wars or natural disasters, that's all i can think off. i doubt it's humans since the last Toruk Makto was Neytiri's grandad's grandad which i think is alot more than 30 years before. who knows, maybe another alien race came down before humans and they got their asses kicked or maybe they reasoned with them and the aliens happily left. maybe one of the xenomorph spaceships crashed on pandora.....and it's still there O_o

[Tsawke`Iheyu]

Originally Posted by tm20

could be either tribal wars or natural disasters, that's all i can think off. i doubt it's humans since the last Toruk Makto was Neytiri's grandad's grandad which i think is alot more than 30 years before. who knows, maybe another alien race came down before humans and they got their asses kicked or maybe they reasoned with them and the aliens happily left. maybe one of the xenomorph spaceships crashed on pandora.....and it's still there O_o

Haha^ But you can't know, maybe Jake was the only Toruk Makto, I mean as a human inside an avatar body, and of course the last Toruk Makto was Neytiri's grand-grand-grand father but he wasn't an alien. Probably he fought against the RDA. It's a common mistake when two rational species attack each other to protect knowledge and values.

[ScottWashburn]

James Cameron has said that originally he'd intended to show that Pandora was VERY seismically active with lots of volcanoes, but that he just ran out of time to include that in the movie (although he does plan to have some of that in Avatar 2). So perhaps there have been times in the past where there have been massive natural disasters where large parts of the population (both animals and Na'vi) have to relocate and start over again. Since there doesn't seem to be any Na'vi government beyond the clan level, Eywa might choose someone to be Toruk Macto to take charge and coordinate the effort.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by ScottWashburn

James Cameron has said that originally he'd intended to show that Pandora was VERY seismically active with lots of volcanoes, but that he just ran out of time to include that in the movie (although he does plan to have some of that in Avatar 2). So perhaps there have been times in the past where there have been massive natural disasters where large parts of the population (both animals and Na'vi) have to relocate and start over again. Since there doesn't seem to be any Na'vi government beyond the clan level, Eywa might choose someone to be Toruk Macto to take charge and coordinate the effort.

...now THERE is an idea. That's really interesting, Scott.

[Human No More]

It's interesting, but I'd say the Na'vi population is global, so it doesn't seem to be directly affected. Also, volcanic activity is usually concentrated in specific regions (e.g. the pacific on Earth) and there wasn't any visible in any of the areas we did see in Avatar.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

It's interesting, but I'd say the Na'vi population is global, so it doesn't seem to be directly affected.

Well, Jake as Toruk Makto was hardly commanding things on a global scale, either. I can see it as a regional thing.

[Loverofnature]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

Something I've been pondering for a while...Jake sought out Toruk in order to unify the clans to try and kick the RDA off-planet (well, that and be able to get the Omaticaya's attention in order to help grace). Later, Jake says "the time of Great Sorrow was ending." And Neytiri says that her grandfather's grandfather also become Toruk Makto in a time of great sorrow. Following the pattern, it could be suggested that the other four Toruk Maktos ALSO unified the clans in their area for 'a time of great sorrow'.

Anyone have any idea what those times could actually be? I'm aware this is pure speculation, but I'm interested in what people can come up with. Beyond, uh, my half-joking suggestion that some of the previous Great Sorrows were ALSO invasions of aliens. Other aliens.

Any ideas?

Personally i think, that the other times of great sorrow, was simply conflicts between clans. In the movie, it does seem like the don't have any contact what so ever with the other clans, before Jake rides out. that's my thought atleast

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Loverofnature

In the movie, it does seem like the don't have any contact what so ever with the other clans, before Jake rides out.

Oh? What makes you say that?