Some Thought for the Mind

[Woodsprite]

Saying that all religious people are causing or being subject to "mind control" is a hurtful, insulting, and outright untrue statement based on ignorance and fear. If you expect me to simply take this kind of offensive tripe in all measures of discussion across the forum (as you so vigilantly love to spew) then you're mistaken. Very mistaken. You're lucky (yes, lucky) that I don't do the same to you.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

I would agree that it's people working towards the same goal, only that that goal is a form of mind control, either controlling or being controlled.

*sighs* It's really not. Religion can be USED as mind control, yes, but at its heart, it's really not. It's....community, I suppose, and all the rituals and rites and prayers that a community of the faithful share as part of their community. In a lot of ways, to actually get to the core of religion IN ITSELF, you kinda have to stop looking at things such as the Catholic Church as the institution in Rome, and start looking at what the average Catholic does that makes them similar to the average Muslim, or the average Wiccan.

[The Man in Black]

Alright alright alright, play nice kids.

HNM, Woodsprite has a point that religion isn't "mind control", that's just a bit blown out of proportion. Woodsprite, no need to be so harsh when calling him out, pretty much set yourself up for a conflict.

And since this is a thread about religion:

Christ...

[ballju]

Originally Posted by Human No More

I would agree that it's people working towards the same goal, only that that goal is a form of mind control, either controlling or being controlled.

Religion in of itself is not used for mind control it's is at its core a set of believes towards how to be saved. Its a group of people that share the same ideology. I'm going to quote Karl Marx as he is one of the people that works influence my life. It can be and it is however Religion in itself isn't.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions.

[Banefull]

That is quite a set of hasty assumptions HMN.

I don't know what you have heard or seen, but the way you portray religious leadership and religion in general is sometimes quite troubling to me. I can truly say that if I had a deep personal problem I could go to my local parish priest, religious instructor, or head of the local order and say "Father, I need your help" and I could expect it to be sincerely offered. I say that I chose to be religious (I make a distinction between religion and faith as defined in this thread) because I want to be part of a community of believers who actively encourage, help, and support each other.

I was brought up to question my own faith and invited to do so and I still believe. I know there are groups that are more literal/fundamentalist in the spectrum of people who are Christian. I may not necessarily agree with the way they approach things but I will say this in their defense: I have never met a single person on this planet who does not blindly believe in something.

[Human No More]

Even if someone does blindly believe something (I would contest your assumption that everyone does with something, unless you count purely subjective topics and matters of opinion such as favourite things), that doesn't mean that they can not aspire to not need to do that. Humans have a need to understand everything, which means that they have historically come up with their own explanation when a provable one was not readily available, but this does not happen to the same degree any more.
Don't get me wrong, some religions do even try to help other people, but it becomes bad when that is only done conditionally, or when people need to feel coerced into doing it as opposed to doing it simply because they want to.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Even if someone does blindly believe something (I would contest your assumption that everyone does with something, unless you count purely subjective topics and matters of opinion such as favourite things), that doesn't mean that they can not aspire to not need to do that. Humans have a need to understand everything, which means that they have historically come up with their own explanation when a provable one was not readily available, but this does not happen to the same degree any more.
Don't get me wrong, some religions do even try to help other people, but it becomes bad when that is only done conditionally, or when people need to feel coerced into doing it as opposed to doing it simply because they want to.

Yes, but that's about what religion can be used for and do, not the definition of it. Which was more what we were talking about - it's a little less politically and emotionally charged.

[Banefull]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Even if someone does blindly believe something (I would contest your assumption that everyone does with something, unless you count purely subjective topics and matters of opinion such as favourite things),

Virtually everything is subjective because honestly, the only thing we truly know is that we exist. Now tell me HMN, would you ever hesitate to consider the possibilities of things such as "all people are not created equally." Science has shown us that certain traits are derived from genes so why don't we practice eugenics? In a situation where someone's life is in danger, would you even pause to think about why you should even try to help? The thing is, we all go out everyday with firm beliefs that we hold to be self evident.

Originally Posted by Human No More

that doesn't mean that they can not aspire to not need to do that. Humans have a need to understand everything, which means that they have historically come up with their own explanation when a provable one was not readily available,

Indeed this did happen a lot but does that mean every faith or religion is based off of wishful thinking? Our search for answers doesn't end with God, it includes God. We want to know what is out there just as much as and we never stop looking. After all, if we wanted to easily justify things through wishful thinking, why not make up a set of beliefs that says we should all just indulge in pleasure? Instead we say that you must undergo great suffering in this life and many struggle to stick to its principles in their lives. It is not exactly the most comforting set of beliefs. In fact, it was so shocking and against the establishment of its day that the originator was killed on politically motivated charges.

Originally Posted by Human No More

Don't get me wrong, some religions do even try to help other people, but it becomes bad when that is only done conditionally, or when people need to feel coerced into doing it as opposed to doing it simply because they want to.

I could say the same for a lot of other things. We have our faults and our mistakes also. In some cases faith was enforced in the past. It is quite unfortunate but plenty of other things besides religion were also enforced. It was a general view not just limited to religion that we finally moved past. I don't see anyone religious here trying to force anyone. That said we will state what we believe if the topic ever comes up.

Some people have tried to justify religion for their own means but does that make the original set of ideas less valid? Many people used evolution to justify Social Darwinism. Does that make evolution any less valid? We, just like you, are equally suspicious and disdainful of those who do try to use it to their own means.