Trudy's Rank

[Raptor]

We never really got to know Trudy's rank in SecOps. In contemporary US military, helicopters are mainly flown by Chief Warrant Officers. However, during an extended scene in CE (The Challenge), Quaritch referred to Trudy as Captain, a commission officer rank. What seems like even more evidence is Wainfleet addressing Trudy as Captain in a joking voice when he was preparing her Samson. However, SecOps may have a different rank structure compared to today's military. Does anyone else have opinions on this?

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by AC130StandingBy

We never really got to know Trudy's rank in SecOps. In contemporary US military, helicopters are mainly flown by Chief Warrant Officers. However, during an extended scene in CE (The Challenge), Quaritch referred to Trudy as Captain, a commission officer rank. What seems like even more evidence is Wainfleet addressing Trudy as Captain in a joking voice when he was preparing her Samson. However, SecOps may have a different rank structure compared to today's military. Does anyone else have opinions on this?

Ahahhah, I have MANY opinions on this!

....mostly that I prefer her as a CWO, as this both fits in the military AND it fits her personality better. Wainfleet's capitaine could be a joke, and/or a little dig at her (like that bit in NCIS with Gibbs, "don't call me 'sir', I work for a living). Also, her insignia matches USMC CWO. In my RPG, she's a CWO, as that's what fit when I was researching nearly a year ago, and I'm not retconning as I've built THAT version of Trudy around her rank. And I really, really, REALLY like the idea of people calling her 'Chief'.

However, Quaritch calls her captain in that deleted scene, and Michelle Rodriguez calls her character a captain in an interview I found. And presumably SecOps have their own insignia. So, I...think it's more likely that she's a captain than not. But, still, Wainfleet's spin on the accent suggests that they have a good enough relationship that he can get away with it.

(In my own headcanon, she was enlisted in USMC first and then transferred over to Naval Academy to become a pilot, just to keep the enlisted edge to her, and signed up with the SecOps when her five years as a CO with USMC was up. Prooooooobably was still a lieutenant (unless she was promoted crazy-quick), and then was promoted to captain in SecOps (possibly as part of the SecOps enticement). But, as I said, this is all MY headcanon. And, uh, a large part of the plot of my fic Speak, Friend, and Enter, so it's really all speculation)

[Human No More]

IIRC, Captain can refer to someone who runs a ship no matter what their official rank is, there isn't any real reason that couldn't be for an aircraft too. Of course, we don't know if the marines there even use any/the same ranks.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Human No More

IIRC, Captain can refer to someone who runs a ship no matter what their official rank is, there isn't any real reason that couldn't be for an aircraft too. Of course, we don't know if the marines there even use any/the same ranks.

...that's not actually how military ranks work. And Navy ranks =/= Army ranks =/= Marine ranks =/= Air Force, and the ranks aren't even the same between countries. In addition, as AC130StandingBy has pointed out, a lot of helicopter pilots tend to be Chief Warrant Officers. They aren't commissioned officers like captains are, but technical specialists. 'Captain' is someone who commands a ship, yes, and it has come to mean boats and also spaceships, but in strict military terms, the use is far more precise. Not to mention that there are captains in all branches of the military, regardless of if they are navy or air force or not. And that there are an awful lot of lieutenants in the world being pilots, and ranks higher than army/air force/marine captain (Navy Captain is different, and a much higher rank).

However, SecOps DO use ranks - Quaritch is referred to numerous times as 'Colonel', in the script Wainfleet is a Corporal, and one of the other extras is a Private. And Trudy is called a Captain. It makes sense given their uniform, the INSIGNIA, the amount of weapons, the fact that the UN limits weapons-usage that SecOps are run like a governmental military - and by run, I mean organizational structure.

[Banefull]

Maybe she once held a higher position. It may very well be possible (given the ISV delay in delivering troops) that secops is officer top heavy because too many lower ranks died while on duty. For example, if you are commanding a platoon and a new higher up arrives, usually he or she will be given the command and you may be bumped down to second in command or perhaps to overseeing a squad until another position opens up.

The number of dedicated security personnel at Hell's Gate is not that big. It only takes a few deaths to make things "unbalanced."

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Banefull

Maybe she once held a higher position. It may very well be possible (given the ISV delay in delivering troops) that secops is officer top heavy because too many lower ranks died while on duty. For example, if you are commanding a platoon and a new higher up arrives, usually he or she will be given the command and you may be bumped down to second in command or perhaps to overseeing a squad until another position opens up.

The number of dedicated security personnel at Hell's Gate is not that big. It only takes a few deaths to make thing "unbalanced."

I'm not sure I really understand where you are coming from? Are you suggesting she used to be a major or something? Captain and CWO are in a different set of the military - one commisioned, the other warrant/NCO

[Banefull]

Originally Posted by Ashen Key

I'm not sure I really understand where you are coming from? Are you suggesting she used to be a major or something? Captain and CWO are in a different set of the military - one commisioned, the other warrant/NCO

No I am saying that there are perhaps too many captains and not enough positions for a captain. In a combat zone for example, if an O-2 is killed in a combat zone then an O-1 or someone of a lower rank will usually fulfill the role until a new O-2 arrives. In essence, your rank may not be reflective of your command. In the Vietnam war, it was very commonplace for mismatches in ranks vs size of command to occur out of necessity for weeks on end. The reverse could be true with too few lower ranks and too many higher ranks. If there aren't enough pilots of the proper rank around someone has to do the job. In fact, I would imagine that the ranks of those who were pilots would be quickly depleted as it is a very risky job with banshees ambushing you and such.

It is a sizeable gap in rank (skips first lieutenant and 2nd lieutenant) but its possible in an extremely remote place such as Pandora.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Banefull

No I am saying that there are perhaps too many captains and not enough positions for a captain. In a combat zone for example, if an O-2 is killed in a combat zone then an O-1 or someone of a lower rank will usually fulfill the role until a new O-2 arrives. In essence, your rank may not be reflective of your command. In the Vietnam war, it was very commonplace for mismatches in ranks vs size of command to occur out of necessity for weeks on end. The reverse could be true with too few lower ranks and too many higher ranks. If there aren't enough pilots of the proper rank around someone has to do the job. In fact, I would imagine that the ranks of those who were pilots would be quickly depleted as it is a very risky job with banshees ambushing you and such.

It is a sizeable gap in rank (skips first lieutenant and 2nd lieutenant) but its possible in an extremely remote place such as Pandora.

Ohhhh, I getcha now. Hrm. I...don't know. If she's NOT a captain, if she's been booted down to CWO (which I'm not sure why, as pilots aren't exactly comanding anyone besides their own crew), then that doesn't explain why Quartich called her one. Also, I think her insignia matches the pattern of Quaritch's - she has one bar of red to his four - which fits in with her being an officer, and a captain, BUT I'll have to go through my caps to double-check that.

[Sothis]

I think Banefull is saying that she IS a captain, but she's filling what would normally be a CWO's role.

[Banefull]

Originally Posted by Sothis

I think Banefull is saying that she IS a captain, but she's filling what would normally be a CWO's role.

^ ^

[Isard]

Is there any particular reason a captain couldn't be a pilot?

Not allot of desk jobs on Pandora.

[Ashen Key]

Originally Posted by Sothis

I think Banefull is saying that she IS a captain, but she's filling what would normally be a CWO's role.

...oh. Right. *rubs head* Okay, then. That basically just means she's more tech-savvy and does more mechanical things than she normally would, which makes sense with the limited number of people around. I've been basically assuming that's the case.

Sorry, I really got...massively confused at what you were getting at. But I can't brain well today, anyway.

Originally Posted by Isard

Is there any particular reason a captain couldn't be a pilot?

Not allot of desk jobs on Pandora.

They don't know how to fly? *g* There are infantry captains, after all. I'd say most captains aren't pilots, generally speaking.

[Tey'Kan]

Originally Posted by Isard

Is there any particular reason a captain couldn't be a pilot?

Not allot of desk jobs on Pandora.

Me thinks not. There are alot of "Captains" flying jets around for the US Navy and the US Air Force. As far as the Army, AC130 is right, most chopper pilots are CWO's.

Tey'Kan

[EywaBlessMe]

Perhaps she received a 'field promotion', even though RDA is not regular army.