Currency

[Isard]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Technically, it is not NEEDED for either.
Also, money to survive is understandable, but 99% of people try to hoard as much as they can and gain at the expense of others and the world, because there is so much they are told they want and have to buy, that they don't need, that they put themselves in debt for... That is the problem.

Because "back in the day", you didn't necessarily know when your next dinner was going to come calling. If you got a chance to stockpile, you did it. We can just do that on a grander scale now.

[Sonoran Na'vi]

Money is a representation of value. It has value because people perceive it to have value (post Gold Standard). Since money is a representation of value, we don't need money to even be in physical form. This is why we are able to conduct finances over electronic medium.

Originally Posted by Human No More

As for the 7 million, sounds like a figure someone just pulled out of the air, there is absolutely no way to measure it. The £250,000 sounds wrong too, considering that's anywhere from 150% to 100% of the cost of an average sized house depending on where.

I was wondering about those numbers, too. Maybe the $7 million takes into account the value added to the economy of the average person. I know the average American will make about $2 million in their lifetime (assuming working 50 years at an average of $40,000 per year).

[Mune]

It's not so much the concept of money that annoys me. 'Trade' is nothing unnatural. Mutualistic symbiosis is seen in nature. I think it's clever in fact, the idea of money.

Person A: "I have too much wood, but no gold."
Person B: "I have to much gold, but too little wood."
Person A: "How about, we assign a 'value' in numbers to our products, and then we can both have what we need."
Person B: "Sounds fair."

In this way, both get what they desire.

However, it's when this starts getting corrupted that I dislike, the point at which a person happens to be born into a family who has *rich parents*, thus they have an advantage from early on.

Now- This is fair. Your parents worked harder, were better with business et cetera, and so have more money. However- It's when a -person's worth- is placed upon the amount of money they have.

There are people who are clever enough to go to University, and further our race. However they lack the sufficient funds. I think, in essence, money is the sole-thing that is stopping a severe amount of *scientific progress* being achieved.

Not to mention all the *money-sinks* like footballers, et cetera.

Try convincing a landlord at the beginning of when money was incorporated- That a person running around kicking a spherical piece of rubber, and shouting profane language at cameras, is worth 10 million dollars as a weekly salary. [Made up statistics, but their wage IS ridiculous]

[Pa'li Makto]

I don't like money by any means. One question though: What would we replace it with?

[Marvellous Chester]

I don't like money by any means. One question though: What would we replace it with?

Respect and love should be it's own currency in my opinion. You help/provide for somebody not to gather bits of paper, but because it helps to solidify a friendship that you cherish

[Советский меч]

Originally Posted by The Silver Stag

Respect and love should be it's own currency in my opinion. You help/provide for somebody not to gather bits of paper, but because it helps to solidify a friendship that you cherish

AS IF! Have you seen people today? Your making the same mistake as Karl Marx. Your expecting people to change for the betterment of society.

[Marvellous Chester]

AS IF! Have you seen people today? Your making the same mistake as Karl Marx. Your expecting people to change for the betterment of society.

Then we truly are all damned

[Tsyal Makto]

Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto

I don't like money by any means. One question though: What would we replace it with?

Looks promising.

The Venus Project

[Banefull]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

Looks promising.

The Venus Project

That is very interesting.

--------------------

My main gripe about how the economic system works is not that it uses money or that a few people recieve most of the benefit (those shortfalls I could live with), rather it is that the economy needs people to fail in order for the system to work.

We don't produce enough products for everyone even though we are definitately capable of doing so. We merely produce only to the extent of what is profitable. For example, in the US, a huge proportion of people are food insecure (about 1/6), yet farmers have to destroy a large portion of their crops/produce instead of shipping it to market. Farmign is hardly profitable these days. If farmers actually grew enough food so that it was bountiful and everyone could easily afford nutritious foods, it wouldn't be profitable. To actually make the system work, we have to make things scarce to a certain degree so that people do compete with each other. There inevitably will be losers even if everyone had the marketing and buying genius of an economics PHD; someone will lose out.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto

I don't like money by any means. One question though: What would we replace it with?

It's not possible as long as there as scarcity, as there will be the drive to stockpile for that reason. That's the problem that should be worked on if a truly currency-free approach (which I consider unlikely) is to be a success.
Also, without some kind of motivation, work never gets done and the entire system collapses from the inside - if you were given everything for free, most people would not want to work, of if the handouts were linked to the job, they would not be putting as much of themselves into it as they often do, imply because there would be no incentive for better performance, and it would increase hours worked, stress, and all the other similar factors - so since the work is not done, the handouts can't be given, so I'd say that entire idea is fundamentally flawed, tying into scarcity again.

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

Looks promising.

The Venus Project

If I remember correctly, that project effectively opposes individual ownership of anything, and it has never addressed who does the actual work (other than "robots/AI." - great in the future, but they need to be developed first). Honestly, the anti-individuality part is enough to make me actually oppose it, when I am in favour of some similar system, but that single point is a huge difference.