Obama's Health Care Plan.

[Gunny]

For me, had I grown up with this plan I would think nothing of it. However, having come from the opposite end I oppose it completely. This is just eating more of our money, putting us further into debt etc. I personally do not like that I will have to pay so that bums can get free healthcare when they are not working themselves (yes I know this is not everyone). There are a few positives but also many negatives of this.

I like this quote from a friend lol, "A health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed... by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong?"

[Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Gunny

For me, had I grown up with this plan I would think nothing of it. However, having come from the opposite end I oppose it completely. This is just eating more of our money, putting us further into debt etc. I personally do not like that I will have to pay so that bums can get free healthcare when they are not working themselves (yes I know this is not everyone). There are a few positives but also many negatives of this.

There are many "money-eating" policies we continue to pursue for various reasons. I find the hypocrisy stunning (not from you but from other groups that attack the health plan due to cost) when dealing with people who didn't object to borrowing to pay for the war in Iraq, borrowing to pay for the war in Afghanistan and the "Bush tax cuts" that were never fully-funded to begin with because that "trillion dollar surplus" discussed back in 2000 was purely hypothetical and assumed both the continuation of Clinton-esque policies and sustained growth of the economy. Now they're shrieking about borrowing to pay for healthcare? I'd rather borrow for that than for a war we know was based on a lie (Iraq) and a war that we're not quite sure how to win (Afghanistan). I supported Afghanistan because that's where the baddies were. I didn't buy the "Al-Qaeda in Iraq" deal.

Here's the "Obama" budget. The three largest categories are Social Security, Defense and Income Security. Before anyone goes blasting Income Security as "welfare for bums," take a look at what's in that category. It includes: unemployment ("welfare"), Supplemental Security Income (have a feeling it might be related to Social Security, not sure), military retirement, food stamps (more "welfare"), Federal retirement for civilians, the cost of the Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit, TANF, Making Work Pay and many smaller categories. The fourth biggest category is Medicare. The fifth and sixth are Health (Medicaid) and Net Interest. Trying to "balance" the budget without touching these top six is bailing water with a thimble. Try to touch Social Security or Medicare and you get uninformed "Teabaggers" yelling about "get the government out of my Medicare." You also get angry AARP members bleating about Social Security cuts. Touch the Defense budget and the hawks/neo-cons are all over you for "hating our troops," "weakening defense" and "letting us fall behind other countries."

In short, yes this proposal is expensive, but to me it's worth more than weapons we don't need. If efficiency gains are actually realized out of this healthcare bill (get people off the ER plan) Medicaid and Medicare costs could drop.

Originally Posted by Gunny

I like this quote from a friend lol, "A health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed... by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong?"

Funny, but doesn't even address the policy (bumpersticker, albeit a long one). To use this in jest makes me chuckle. To use it in a formal argument is ad hominem (and tu quoque). I can do the same thing (paraphrased): I can't wait until everyone has healthcare and education, but the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.

[rapunzel77]

Originally Posted by Gunny

I like this quote from a friend lol, "A health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed... by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong?"

LOL, that's a funny quote .

Sovereign: I agree with most of your points. We are dealing with a complex beast and I know it is probably not feasible to kick all the "bums" out of congress but it is frustrating when it seems that these politicians do not have the best interests of the country but seemed to be bought and paid for by special interest groups and corporations.

I see your point when you talk about not trusting the private sector as much as the government because of their tendency to become corrupt. You are also right that the corporations have been caring more about getting short term profits instead of working to ensure that the company can be successful in the long term. That is why many of them are hurting now. The bubbles that burst in the late 80's with the S&L scandals, the late 90's/2000's with the Dot-com bubble, and now the housing bust is just the icing on the cake for what will come. I fear that there are more bubbles that will be burst.

The same is true for the government. I totally agree that we never should have gone to Iraq. Going to Afghanistan made more sense because there were actual Al'Quada camps there. You also make a good point about the top things that our country pays for is stuff that no one wants touched. I'm concerned that since we are $12 trillion in debt and counting up that we can't afford this healthcare law. We simply can't afford it.