If there is a heaven

[apache_blanca]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I thought that book was about past lives, but cool.

it is but only a bit - the main subject is "life between lives" i.e. "in heaven" if we can call it this way

In heaven, Avatar is regarded as a classic, and in heaven, IMAX 3D showings require no glasses to see clearly

yay! they got it right out there - Long live Heaven!

[Moco Loco]

Had a dream last night that I was in a plane that was crashing. As it went down, it flew between two buildings and both of the wings were ripped off. I knew I was going to die, so I closed my eyes tightly, and then I was suddenly in a hospital room. A doctor guy led me into a lobby where I was waiting for my turn to use a bulky computer in the corner. On it was a survey meant to determine where I should be placed in heaven

[Theorist]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Wouldn't any afterlife eventually get boring and depressing?
With enough time, you would exhaust literally every option.

I think that's a great question. I've thought about it a lot, and what I've gathered from talking to other people is that Heaven isn't necessarily a place with a bunch of fun things to do. It's that you are reconnected with god. This doesn't mean you get to go to pandora, or some amazing golf course, or a giant ski resort, etc. It means that being connected with god, you are entirely free to experience only the 'higher' 'good' emotions, such as love and care for others, being in harmony, and completely empathy with everyone else, pure peace, and no worries. It also means that you are completely free of all the sinful parts of life, such as lust, greed, hate, anger, envy, pride etc.

I've thought about what that would be like, and being in complete love with everybody else, and complete understanding (much like tshaluy gives better communication than speech we have). It would be un-endingly fulfilling.

I know it's hard to wrap one's head around what that would be like, but I think it's starting to make sesne to me.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Theorist

I think that's a great question. I've thought about it a lot, and what I've gathered from talking to other people is that Heaven isn't necessarily a place with a bunch of fun things to do. It's that you are reconnected with god. This doesn't mean you get to go to pandora, or some amazing golf course, or a giant ski resort, etc. It means that being connected with god, you are entirely free to experience only the 'higher' 'good' emotions, such as love and care for others, being in harmony, and completely empathy with everyone else, pure peace, and no worries. It also means that you are completely free of all the sinful parts of life, such as lust, greed, hate, anger, envy, pride etc.

I don't really like this idea, since it produces a big honking value system out of nowhere without really suggesting where it comes from. Why are certain emotions "good" while others "bad?" For instance, what's wrong with pride, in moderation?

[Theorist]

For me, for pride, it's that it sets a sort of self-worth. It makes me think I can ever be or achieve anything without god. Like, with no god I am a blip in the universe, a mere flash in the timescale of the universe, utterly pointless at the core. Pride makes me think I can be something on my own. When in reality I cannot, I can never achieve anything on my own. I know it sounds harsh, and don't take it to mean I don't care for human life, I do, that's the wrong interpretation. It's that pride, any form, tricks me into thinking I am can accomplish something other than death.

Pride also leads to people thinking they are better than another. That probably goes beyond "pride in moderation," but I just think any pride is misleading, because one cannot achieve anything but death alone.

[Human No More]

That is an amazingly bad idea.

Emotion is what motivates people to do anything. Pride isn't being better than someone, it's being happy about yourself. The logical alternative is to hate absolutely everything that is at all similar to themself.

A lot of people don't share your belief in a mythical being, and indeed, even the vast majority of those who do seem proud to some degree of something - and there is not anything inherently wrong with pride in itself.

[Theorist]

That's why I'm posting this on the spirituality forum, where belief in a mythical being is tolerated. Clarke asked what I thought was wrong with pride, so I told him what I thought. I don't think it's an amazingly bad idea, and I understand it's not going to be understood from a single paragraph on a forum, and I can see how it sounds rediculous. But I don't just randomly come up with these things. I think about them a lot. I think "what are the things that make life less than fulfilling." I could try to write and detailed explanation in private messages (it'd be somewhat limited still, but better)

I also don't claim to not be proud at times. I definitely carry pride, I can't deny that. But, I disagree, I think there is something inherently wrong with pride. I realize that it makes sense to be proud of who you are and I see where you are coming from, I just have a differing belief on the opinion.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Theorist

When in reality I cannot, I can never achieve anything on my own.

...Honestly? Because that'd be a very odd idea of "achivement," IMO.

[apache_blanca]

Do you know this mambo tune?

"Para subir al cielo, se necesita una escalera muuuuuuuy larga!"
"One needs a veeeeeeeeery long stairway to reach the sky!"

Going back to the OP:

Originally Posted by Hunter of the Glade

...these books describe what heaven is like. In the text, heaven is portrayed as "whatever you want it to be." It is described as the happiest place or emotion you've ever experienced or dreamed in your entire life.

...a heaven that is your own personal world would be absolutely awesome.

Given this, I would imagine that...

Theorist will go to heaven where he (she?) can freely communicate with god experiencing pure & happy emotions, & no worries or sinful thoughts.

HNM & Clarke will go to no heaven cos they don’t consider heaven an option.

Hunter of Glade & Tsyal Makto will go to Pandora. *

Moco Loco’s heaven is similar to a uni with lots of (100?) levels/courses.

Me, Eltu, & those who see it this way will move from one level to the next & there will be time & space for everything to try out!

Changing a little bit:

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

Had a dream last night … I knew I was going to die, so I closed my eyes tightly, and then I was suddenly in a hospital room. …I was waiting for my turn to use a bulky computer in the corner. On it was a survey meant to determine where I should be placed in heaven

Did you get to see, where exactly? this reminds me of Sey Shonagon (an XIth century Japanese poetess: "Of the 12 lotus seats that are in heaven even the lowest one would be desirable for me". 12? You said, there were 100 levels in your "heaven uni". But maybe Sey Shonagons' heaven was different.

* I saw a similar place in a waking dream. I had a very stressful day so I just got into bed & had a long Q&A session, why I was feeling so horrible that I wouldn’t actually mind to “leg it from the skypersons world”, what would make me feel better, & imagining it already had happened. I did manage to pull myself together & started feeling a bit better; I was about to get out of bed when suddenly it was a – Flash-flash-flash! then REM, & - a glowing jungle. A tall purple woman was holding my hand. If I was feeling slightly better before that, at this vision I had such a boost that I would go dancing. Really, she pumped a great energy into me thru this “handshake tsaheylu”. She said: “You’re now away for a reason, but when your job (or journey?) is over, I’ll be right here waiting for you”. I said it would be great to see her again I couldn’t remember who she was but I knew for a fact I adored her.

That place Did seem quite like Pandora & I would love to know who the woman was! although I have a wild guess…

PS Oh, Clarke, & I think your signature is great

[Moco Loco]

I think it was 66, which is pretty decent. They all are, but the lower levels are a little more disorderly. I've seen all colors of people from other planets, all anatomical designs, but they always have the stick figure

[Theorist]

I will say, I like the idea of going to pandora for heaven. And what I think of heaven doesn't exclude it from including pandora. (I hope it does, and I hope i'll see you guys there)

And Clarke, I just think that there is nothing I can achieve, because in the end it all ends up not mattering. It will all probably become hydrogen atoms moving farther and farther away from each other as entropy has more and more effect. Now that doesn't mean I don't work hard, don't care for people, and don't want a meaningful job. It just means that I think ultimately nothing done will end up mattering, it might for a bit, but not forever. So honestly, yes I do think that, and I see how it's strange, and most the time I wouldn't tell people because they'd think I'm an emotionless lazy bastard who doesn't give a damn about anything. But that's taking it the wrong way.

[apache_blanca]

Originally Posted by Moco Loco

I think it was 66, which is pretty decent. They all are, but the lower levels are a little more disorderly. I've seen all colors of people from other planets, all anatomical designs, but they always have the stick figure

66/100? Cool! I daresay you arent' doing that bad & you made me laugh with a stick figure extraterrestrial: remember my ToS Meetup dream, about humans & extraterrestrials, that I posted on your Dreams (general)? This sticky figure seems one of them!

Originally Posted by Theorist

I will say, I like the idea of going to pandora for heaven. And what I think of heaven doesn't exclude it from including pandora. (I hope it does, and I hope i'll see you guys there)

well this - an all-inclusive heaven - is something more like i understand it (like multi-dimensional, or multi-level heaven). Only imho of course - I am not imposing my views on anybody. I am in

... I just think that there is nothing I can achieve, because in the end it all ends up not mattering.

someone i know indirectly had an NDE during a heart attack. She saw her life in retrospective & it turned out that the most important thing she had ever done was to give a glass of water to a stranger in a wheelchair. She actually didn't remember this occurrence in the RL & was quite surprised to see it from "out there". Not the studies, the work, the career, the bank account, the sports achievements... The most important thing happened to be a random spontaneous gesture of unconditional love.

So, talking about achievements, I guess it would be interesting to define "achievement". Individual definitions might vary.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Theorist

For me, for pride, it's that it sets a sort of self-worth. It makes me think I can ever be or achieve anything without god. Like, with no god I am a blip in the universe, a mere flash in the timescale of the universe, utterly pointless at the core. Pride makes me think I can be something on my own. When in reality I cannot, I can never achieve anything on my own. I know it sounds harsh, and don't take it to mean I don't care for human life, I do, that's the wrong interpretation. It's that pride, any form, tricks me into thinking I am can accomplish something other than death.

Pride also leads to people thinking they are better than another. That probably goes beyond "pride in moderation," but I just think any pride is misleading, because one cannot achieve anything but death alone.

And I though I had a depressing attitude towards life.

There is nothing wrong with pride as long as it's justified. As in it's okay to be proud if you can do something useful, for yourself or for other people. Also with or without pride, some people just are better than others, but they don't have to make a fuss about it, it's just a fact of life. Measuring the differences how some people are better than others is another thing though.

Originally Posted by Theorist

And Clarke, I just think that there is nothing I can achieve, because in the end it all ends up not mattering. It will all probably become hydrogen atoms moving farther and farther away from each other as entropy has more and more effect. Now that doesn't mean I don't work hard, don't care for people, and don't want a meaningful job. It just means that I think ultimately nothing done will end up mattering, it might for a bit, but not forever. So honestly, yes I do think that, and I see how it's strange, and most the time I wouldn't tell people because they'd think I'm an emotionless lazy bastard who doesn't give a damn about anything. But that's taking it the wrong way.

While we will die off at some point, the following generation will be left behind to deal with the consequences of our actions, and it sure matters to them and their children what we choose to do today. The problem with us humans is that we are extremely short sighted in everything we do and think, and it has lead to many unpleasant things up to this point.

[Theorist]

Sorry for a short derail, but I mean don't get me wrong, I still wanna help the world and leave it a better place, I just can't really offer a better explanation than "just because" and "it feels right"

[Pa'li Makto]

Sometimes going with instincts/feeling/intuition is all you have to explain something..It could be because some concepts like afterlife/heaven are hard to describe because no one has ever returned from the dead to tell us what the afterlife/heaven might be like. I suppose we all try to make an explanation of what happens after death..