A new use for solar power: pump oil

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

The world is already overpopulated. To support humanity in whatever living system we are going to have to drop our numbers, regardless. Period.

Fkeu - I agree. This all seems a bit doublethinkish. What happened to Seeing?

How exactly does one drop the human numbers? As in thinking about ethically sound solutions, not the most effective ones.

Also, feel free to change the world by telling the evil oil people to stop doing all this stuff and shut down the whole fossil fuel industry and move to renewable energy sources and so on. The world is ****ed up, and no matter what we think about it here, it will continue to stay that way.

[Aquaplant]

Geographical statistics must be taken into consideration when judging the need for energy and resources. In places where temperature never drops below 0 Celsius, it doesn't take nearly as much energy to simply stay alive compared to where it can go easily below -20. Also, transportation is required more in places with harsh natural conditions, compared to where one won't freeze to death when going from place to place. Granted this could be said as an issue of comfort, but it's still relative.

Now when it comes to non-essential consumption, there are places where things can be toned down without having a significant impact of the standard of living. Still, it's no wonder people consume so much when everything we buy breaks down in less than a year due to being bad quality. Then again most of the stuff we buy is just for entertainment rather than essential need.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Geographical statistics must be taken into consideration when judging the need for energy and resources. In places where temperature never drops below 0 Celsius, it doesn't take nearly as much energy to simply stay alive compared to where it can go easily below -20. Also, transportation is required more in places with harsh natural conditions, compared to where one won't freeze to death when going from place to place. Granted this could be said as an issue of comfort, but it's still relative.

Indeed, geography is very important. For instance, I recently learned that Qatar, of all places, uses the most energy per person per year. When you look, the reason for this is rather simple.

[Aquaplant]

It's funny how for some, the lack of heat is the problem, whereas for others, too much heat is the problem. Earth truly is an inefficient place to live, could really use some consistency.

[Fkeu'itan]

Lol, I never expected to hear support for this kind of thing from Avatar fans, of all people.

[Moco Loco]

We should all move to temperate zones

[Tsyal Makto]

What I've always advocated. Subsidized contraceptives for both men and women, subsidized abortion, and standardized, thorough sexual education for all school ciriculums, as well as rolling back tax credits for large families, such as a cutoff of two children (beyond this, the family loses their tax breaks).

Of course, we can't do any of this until we tell the socially conservative right-wingers to piss off.

[iron_jones]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

What I've always advocated. Subsidized contraceptives for both men and women, subsidized abortion, and standardized, thorough sexual education for all school ciriculums, as well as rolling back tax credits for large families, such as a cutoff of two children (beyond this, the family loses their tax breaks).

Of course, we can't do any of this until we tell the socially conservative right-wingers to piss off.

We will NOT piss off and you won't say ****!

Conservative and intolerant fo lyfe.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by iron_jones

We will NOT piss off and you won't say ****!

Conservative and intolerant fo lyfe.

Conservative right-wingin' is alright to a degree. Fascism isn't very nice though.

[auroraglacialis]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Now when it comes to non-essential consumption, there are places where things can be toned down without having a significant impact of the standard of living. Still, it's no wonder people consume so much when everything we buy breaks down in less than a year due to being bad quality. Then again most of the stuff we buy is just for entertainment rather than essential need.

I agree. These are some of the problems - wastefulness and the demand for entertainment (which in part comes from the deprivation of people from natural living. Of course a person sitting in an office or school for hours a day needs "entertainment" - unlike a person who does what he likes most of the day, who is free to play, sing, talk, be outdoors, build and create things.

Originally Posted by Clarke

For instance, I recently learned that Qatar, of all places, uses the most energy per person per year. When you look, the reason for this is rather simple.

WellQatar is a place that is just symptomatic - it is a place where there should not be so many people living. But still - I visited Persia once (now called Iran) and they had ancient buildings there that used underground tunnels to direct water into the town to form pools - then they used towers to catch the wind and direct it over the pools to cleate a humid and cool atmosphere in the buildings. Voila - 100% renewable, free, solar powered air conditioning 1000 years ago...

Originally Posted by Human No More

Africa's a continent.

Ok, then replace "USA" in my text with "North America" and it also is a continent. Does not change the argument.

In order to support the human population, without civilisation, the entire Earth's surface would have to be dedicated to agriculture or housing, not to mention the instant chaos that would erupt and likely cause WW3.

For the first - "citation needed".
For the second - only if there is a crash or collapse. I think if we do "business as usual", that crash will eventually come. Which is why I think one better would be advised to start thinking about a "soft landing"

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan

Lol, I never expected to hear support for this kind of thing from Avatar fans, of all people.

Indeed - I am amazed. I remember in the first year when I put out stories like this in the forum, of dams being built, of new mines bein opened and of crazy oil projects, a lot of people agreed that it was horrible, that this is the RDA doing this, that they are building hells gate... and recently I hear "but we need all of this" all the time. What happened?

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

What I've always advocated. Subsidized contraceptives for both men and women, subsidized abortion, and standardized, thorough sexual education for all school ciriculums, as well as rolling back tax credits for large families, such as a cutoff of two children (beyond this, the family loses their tax breaks).

Good plan. Most important of all I think however are equal rights and possibilities for women (self determination, control over their own lives and bodies) and free or very affordable access to any means of birth control. Women usually would choose to have less children than more if they are free to choose and there are not economic, religious or patriachalic interests at play. And yes - to tax-subsidize large families is rather mad. On the other hand I see a point even if it plays into an overall madness. Here in Germany, birth rates in German families are approaching 1 child per family. Immigrant families however range way above 2 children per family. The result is that this turns into a "arms race" to preserve culture and ethnicity. There are increasingly Germans around that fear that within 50 years Germany will be islamic. I think to fight this kind of demographic "takeover" by subsidizing population growth is definitely the wrong choice. It is what lead to an overpopulated world in the first place - because each nation or state or country tried to grow faster than the others in an effort to outcompete them.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Indeed - I am amazed. I remember in the first year when I put out stories like this in the forum, of dams being built, of new mines bein opened and of crazy oil projects, a lot of people agreed that it was horrible, that this is the RDA doing this, that they are building hells gate... and recently I hear "but we need all of this" all the time. What happened?

I'm amazed you can say that. This is used for exisitng areas, and significantly reduces use of fossil fuel.

Without oil, the world would end. There's no way around that, and some kind of romanticised wishful thinking will not change that. People who do that never accomplishing anything in the real world, while people who look at the present situation and what can realistically change are the ones who make an actual difference, not the people who are essentially a walking stereotype of 'smash everything because it's there' anarchists or "I'm white therefore anything by someone who isn't is automatically good".

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

What I've always advocated. Subsidized contraceptives for both men and women, subsidized abortion, and standardized, thorough sexual education for all school ciriculums, as well as rolling back tax credits for large families, such as a cutoff of two children (beyond this, the family loses their tax breaks).

Of course, we can't do any of this until we tell the socially conservative right-wingers to piss off.

That's right, but it will still take 4-5 generations at a minimum. That will never happen if people want to throw Earth into World War 3.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Without oil, the world would end. There's no way around that, and some kind of romanticised wishful thinking will not change that.

As a mere energy source oil is quite trivial, but as a component to all other kinds of other neat usages, it is quite relevant. And seeing how the need of energy is quite integral part of everything we do, it should be produced with something more sophisticated than just burning stuff.

The main problem is that almost all transportation is fuel based, so nothing would get anywhere without oil, unless electrically powered transportation would be more available. Then again that raises an increasing need for electricity, which in turn would need to be produced by a number of means.

Nuclear power is the current crude and effective way of transforming matter into usable electricity, but has quite many downsides in terms long term hazards. As far as renewable energy sources go, they would need to be in great quantities, like solar power for instance. Wind energy is difficult due to requiring huge mechanical prerequisites before being effective, and also being dependant of places where it's windy most of the time. Tidal power is also neat, but also quite difficult to acquire when not near water. But I'd say solar power is best for individual use, considering how easy it is to set up and maintain.

[Human No More]

It's potentially possible to synthesise it for non-fuel uses (plastics, byproducts) and even uses in terms of heavy fuel oil (think ships) where other sources short of nuclear are impractical, but obviously impractical to do so for use as a general energy source (conservation of energy, and the lack of any 100% efficient process), and doing so obviously needs a source of abundant non-hydrocarbon energy, which is at least a few decades off for one that everyone can be happy about.

[Moco Loco]

Whatever. All my assumptions about energy in the future include the estimate that there will somehow be less people in the world, I do not deny it. I am hopelessly optimistic . If there are more, I don't even know what will happen. Horrible disasters, I guess. I know I'm in no position to prepare myself either way I've got a few cans.