Afterlife Previous Life?

[apache_blanca]

talking NDE we're talking soul - not brain. A soul works in a little bit different way.

[Advent]

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

talking NDE we're talking soul - not brain. A soul works in a little bit different way.

Quoted for truth.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

talking NDE we're talking soul - not brain. A soul works in a little bit different way.

Since I can't visualize 5D, imagine what ultravoilet looks like, or hallucinate ultrasound, I'm disinclined to believe you. Everything we've ever seen suggests that the mind/brain/thing can't properly deal with fundamentally new expereince, like cochlear implants, etc. Of course, that's not a definite counter-proof, and fair enough if you believe her; I'm just saying I don't.

Also, eww, quantum mysticism. Let's say science will stop being aggressive about this when sceince stops being misrepresented?

[Advent]

Remember though: Apache was talking about the soul, not the 'mind/brain/thing' you speak of. In spiritual terms, it'd be impossible to understand something as complex as that in the physical regard.

Just a helpful reminder as well: this is in the spirituality subforum, not the science one.

[apache_blanca]

Originally Posted by Advent

Just a helpful reminder as well: this is in the spirituality subforum, not the science one.

*applause*

I was just going to say: if you enter here, be prepared to hear (read) about signs, coincidences, spiritual guides, many lives, subtle fields, the flow of energy, premonitions, dreamhunts, astral journeys, the will of Eywa, soul transfer, spirits of animals and so on and so forth - fascinating stuff altho it is not scientifically proven (yet!) - and maybe it hasn't to be, either!

[Advent]

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

I was just going to say: if you enter here, be prepared to hear (read) about signs, coincidences, spiritual guides, many lives, subtle fields, the flow of energy, premonitions, dreamhunts, astral journeys, the will of Eywa, soul transfer, spirits of animals and so on and so forth - fascinating stuff altho it is not scientifically proven (yet!) - and maybe it hasn't to be, either!

Quite. But I must add:

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

the will of Eywa,

Eywa and Gaia.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Advent

In spiritual terms, it'd be impossible to understand something as complex as that in the physical regard.

That's a very sticky thing to say, IMO. You're asserting what science can't do, without anything to back you up. I don't have the data to come in here and say for certain that you're wrong, so I'm completely confused by how you can say I'm wrong.

Also, it's somewhat irrelavent where the "seat of thinking" is, whether that's in the soul, brain, mind, or even the pineal gland. My point is that we have a very good idea of how it behaves, and a blind-from-birth person actually being able to process vision doesn't fit into that. Now, "doesn't fit into our expectations" isn't a definite counter-proof, but conversely, being so open-minded that our brains falls out isn't productive.

Just a helpful reminder as well: this is in the spirituality subforum, not the science one.

Yes, but the article linked earlier specifically mentions science as well; it had a list of "scientific" articles validating NDEs. (I have not read most of them, but there's an awful lot of not-quite-fraud going on in similar areas.) The one I linked to even tried to twist quantum theory to support its view.

The concept of non-overlapping magesteria, while a good one, only applies when the things under consideration actually are non-overlapping.

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

if you enter here, be prepared to hear (read) about [..] subtle fields, the flow of energy, [...] and so on and so forth

It'd be nice if people didn't misuse terms like this. "Fields" and "energy" are very specific things in the context of science, and although they're less specific in casual conversation, AFAIK, the "spiritual" versions have absolutely nothing to do with either. This is being accidentally unclear at best, and delibrately abusing language at worst. It's fine to use the same language if it's the same thing, but even the post I quoted right there suggests they aren't. (e.g. Fields such as the electric field aren't 'subtle'; they're fundamental components of the universe.)

- fascinating stuff altho it is not scientifically proven (yet!) - and maybe it hasn't to be, either!

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Was there a grammar mistake?

[Tsyal Makto]

I think you missed the point about the brain/mind-soul connection that Advent brought up. YES, a person's vision and optic nerves would likely be atrophied if they received...say...artificially eyes or something. All of that involves the brain, as in what we use to process sensory information when we are still alive. However, that goes out the door when we are dead, then it is the realm of the soul, and sensory input involving it can involve a completely different set of rules. At least, that's my dualist standpoint.

Apache is Spanish, Clarke, in case you haven't noticed. English is likely her second language, so likely some things will be lost in translation now and then. IMO it's a bit rude to attempt to use these as fodder to attack her with.

Also, if you don't believe in spirituality, why do you come here? Iconoclastic tendencies?

[apache_blanca]

Ma Naviya,

I warn: I am the most boring person on this planet when it comes to debates because I simply don't see the point in them. Just imagining that we are shooting verbal arrows at each other for the next twenty pages in order to end up with the same point of view as of right now... makes me wish to do something more useful with my time, like to go to the forest & pick up the garbage that skawngs leave there, or to go to taekwondo & kick the walls*.

*And here, Clarke, you can give me a scientific explanation on why intense physical activity brightens somebody's mood - & I'll listen with interest.

Back to the discussion - if somebody doesn't believe me - s/he is welcome. If somebody believes me - s/he is welcome. My opinion, as well as that particular website, is here for all to see, take it or leave it. Free choice

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

I think you missed the point about the brain/mind-soul connection that Advent brought up. YES, a person's vision and optic nerves would likely be atrophied if they received...say...artificially eyes or something. All of that involves the brain, as in what we use to process sensory information when we are still alive. However, that goes out the door when we are dead, then it is the realm of the soul, and sensory input involving it can involve a completely different set of rules. At least, that's my dualist standpoint.

yes, Tsyal, this is how I see it. In that particular interview, a person born blind would have no idea about colours or light, or what buildings, or male & female look like. Brain doesn't work this way, that's true - but the soul would know cos it lived so many lives that it would have some concept of colour, image & vision etc.

Apache is Spanish, Clarke, in case you haven't noticed. English is likely her second language, so likely some things will be lost in translation now and then. .

Yes, English is my second language - altho I am not Spanish, at least not by blood. But I don't really know who I am anymore (and I actually don't care that much ) If anybody would like me to clarify something I said - just ask, I'll try my best

@Advent: Eywa and Gaia. So, you see them as sisters, so to speak? I was rather thinking "a rose is a rose by any other name". But again, it's fine if we have different points of view on how to describe it. Spirit is all that matters

@Clarke: talking about a grammar error. Erm... let me try again. Some stuff is fascinating altho it cannot be explained scientifically* (yet - just think of all the discoveries that will be made even this year). And some things simply don't have to be explained. Like, you can read a very knowledgeable book about bananas but you won't know what they taste like until you bite into one.

Sorry it was a long post - apart from answering other posts, I wanted to tell why you (almost) never see me participating in debates.

[Eltu]

I'll have to ask you (all) to stay on topic, or I'll have to move posts from this thread, considering their hostile nature.

Eltu

[apache_blanca]

You're right Eltu. I guess the responsibility is mine cos I mentioned an NDE experience which to me seemed similar to the one described in the original post - and that triggered the exchange.

I didn't mean to be hostile, if I sound like - I apologize.

let's talk more about past lives / life between lives / many lives...

[Tsanten Eywa 'eveng]

what about having Pandora-like dreams?

I dreamed one time about a world, the same as Pandora, with even floating mountains

In that time, I didn't knew about Avatar
I posted this to the dreams post in general discussion

Can this dream be related to a past life?

This dream was in early 2009 or late 2008

[Fosus]

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

... Spirit is all that matters ...

I just love when someone says this.


yea sorry off topic

[Advent]

Originally Posted by Clarke

That's a very sticky thing to say, IMO. You're asserting what science can't do, without anything to back you up. I don't have the data to come in here and say for certain that you're wrong, so I'm completely confused by how you can say I'm wrong.

Also, it's somewhat irrelavent where the "seat of thinking" is, whether that's in the soul, brain, mind, or even the pineal gland. My point is that we have a very good idea of how it behaves, and a blind-from-birth person actually being able to process vision doesn't fit into that. Now, "doesn't fit into our expectations" isn't a definite counter-proof, but conversely, being so open-minded that our brains falls out isn't productive.

I'm not actually saying you're wrong. I'm saying that the knowledge of the soul is a completely different ball park to the brain, and the soul is what we're discussing.

Anyway, I don't want to go more off topic.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Tsyal Makto

I think you missed the point about the brain/mind-soul connection that Advent brought up. YES, a person's vision and optic nerves would likely be atrophied if they received...say...artificially eyes or something. All of that involves the brain, as in what we use to process sensory information when we are still alive. However, that goes out the door when we are dead, then it is the realm of the soul, and sensory input involving it can involve a completely different set of rules. At least, that's my dualist standpoint.

Fair enough, but what of the deaf person who receives a hearing aid and can't use it comfortably because they can't process the new data?

Apache is Spanish, Clarke, in case you haven't noticed. English is likely her second language, so likely some things will be lost in translation now and then. IMO it's a bit rude to attempt to use these as fodder to attack her with.

I didn't intend to attack her for the grammar error. I genuinely did not understand the sentence. The word choice thing is also not her mistake speciifcally; those terms are used all over the place in discussion of these things.

Also, if you don't believe in spirituality, why do you come here? Iconoclastic tendencies?

Because it is interesting? I can't remember why I looked at this thread originally, but I kept looking at it because I was reading it.

Originally Posted by apache_blanca

*And here, Clarke, you can give me a scientific explanation on why intense physical activity brightens somebody's mood - & I'll listen with interest.

Though there are less citations than I'd like, Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation. There's also this article, which has more sources.

yes, Tsyal, this is how I see it. In that particular interview, a person born blind would have no idea about colours or light, or what buildings, or male & female look like. Brain doesn't work this way, that's true - but the soul would know cos it lived so many lives that it would have some concept of colour, image & vision etc.

Does this potentially include non-human lives? I don't know which cosmology you're using for what a "soul" is.

Yes, English is my second language

You speak it incredibly well.

@Clarke: talking about a grammar error. Erm... let me try again. Some stuff is fascinating altho it cannot be explained scientifically* (yet - just think of all the discoveries that will be made even this year).

Do you mean unexplainable entirely, or unexplainable for lack of data?

And some things simply don't have to be explained. Like, you can read a very knowledgeable book about bananas but you won't know what they taste like until you bite into one.

True enough. I'd question it in absolute, across-all-of-spacetime terms, but the only exceptions I can think of involve technologies that don't exist yet, and probably won't exist within the lifetimes of most people on Earth.

Originally Posted by Fosus

I just love when someone says this.

So do I, but that's because I have a rather unconventional idea of what constitutes a "spirit." (which is mostly inspired by the Sagan quote, "the beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together.")