Another Hometree destroyed - Dale Farm eviction

[Fkeu'itan]

Don't take it as blunt-force as it would seem...

The police did not set those caravans ablaze, it was in fact the result of a tussle between police and protestors, when a riot ensued. It is not a case of the police deliberately setting fire to them.

I do not believe that saying "they have been forced to stop travelling" is a fair statement. In fact, they were not "travelling" at all. They had been settled on that land for over 10 years. What they were actually choosing to do was to live on the fringe of society, only taking what they thought was best for them, disregarding everything else. Even the law, in most cases. They *can* continue to travel, but this is not the mentality they have, generally. They are not a good bunch of people who simply move from place to place, they root themselves in, often illegally or in already owned or used land and subsequently proceed to stake their claim to it, even if it is to the detriment to local people or the 'owner' of the land.

As far as I am concerned, when you choose to live life outside of a system, in the name of traditionalism or culture, you choose to do so fully. You do not and can not simply pick and choose to follow the benefits of the systems, laws, whatever it may be that is set out, and refuse to pay for them in return. They were living on that land - even if it was a portion of it, and not the entirity - illegally. That is the simple truth. And while I do support the idea of traditional cultures, I cannot say I support a culture that has no regard for other things like existing local communities and people, the natural environment of the land they live on, or even basic human rights like female equality and basic civil standards. (I realise this might be an awful generalisation, but from what I know and have experienced of gypsy culture, these things are true.)

A good example of this that I have is that our local leisure centre had a lot of room in the carpark due to underuse (and an overflow carpark, too). This space was subsequently taken over by 'travellers', where they proceeded to ruin the loacl community. Crimes shot up, there were complaints of disturbance and people began to felt threatened by these people. After a number of months, the council managed to move them on, but in their wake, they left rubbish tips, tyres and rubbish in rivers and a sizeable pile of bare human waste. Surely, you cannot sit there and tell me that was fair for the people who lived in that area, to have to endure such hassle and disgusting behaviour from anyone - be they gypsies or even just a regular people who lived there. Also, unfortunately, when you experience such behaviour, having threats and insults shouted at you from passers by, as well as having watched many documentaries on the way their culture works, you simply lose all faith and respect for a group of people. (This is something I have experienced, too.)

I know I agree with a lot of things when it comes with what you have to say, Aurora, but unfortunately this is not one of those subjects.

[auroraglacialis]

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan

They are not a good bunch of people who simply move from place to place, they root themselves in, often illegally or in already owned or used land and subsequently proceed to stake their claim to it, even if it is to the detriment to local people or the 'owner' of the land.

I see you have strong feelings against these people. I assume you have had personal contact or experiences that form that opinion, while I obviously did not meet any british travellers in person yet. So I will accept that your view on them is a different one.
You already put "owner" in quotes, I appreciate that, because I think it is a certain assumption that land can be owned and these people obviously do not think so - which position makes more sense I will not try to determine here. Obviously if they go and interfere with someone elses life to his detriment, this is not acceptable (e.g. setting up camp in a destructive way on land that someone else is using as grassland, garden, nature retreat).

What I know is, that travellers in general ("gypsies, Roma, circus people,...") have never been regarded as particularly nice people in history. They were always - no matter the personal behaviour - judged with prejudice. I think this kind of behaviour is not appropriate as it infers certain things about people simply from their lifestyle, culture or descent. If these people there specifically have been criminals (beyond the violation of zoning regulations), destroying land, or damaging other peoples lives - fair enough, then they do not deserve sympathy. But my impression was that most of them were not.

But again - I accept that there are different views on these folks and that mine has possibly less foundation as it springs only from people I met in a different country and from news and articles. I still object to the way they have been treated.