Another Hometree destroyed - Dale Farm eviction

[Fkeu'itan]

Perhaps i'm a little biased too. And I will admit that what I said was a sweeping generalisation of such people - i'm sure there *are* people out there who simply wish to live a different way of life with the respect and dignity that both they give to other people, and -in turn - that other people will give to them. But these things are definitely a two-way street.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike them just *because* they are gypsies, I dislike them for the people that they more than often are. I don't think it's fair to excuse them for acting in a way that is crude or destructive or loutish, just because they are under pressure, that serves as too much of an easy way out of the issue for me.

No matter what position you're in financially or culturally, things like common courtesy and care for your fellow man are free.

The issue of 'owning' land is a difficult one. I do not fully believe in the concept of property ownership - I still believe that if one acts as (in your words) a steward of the land, they look after it, care for it and actually make someting of it beyond simply a patch of land to root into and abuse, then yes, land should not technically be owned (unfortunately, many of these people do not act in this way) - but on the other hand, I can't say I support the idea that people can freely pitch up anywhere they like and start making a mess, then being able to simply wave a hand and justify it as their 'cultural right'. Unfortunately, in this world, there are laws. Not all of them are right, not all of them are wrong,but there *are* some very basic laws that I see not as a government restriction or control system, but simply as a guidance - a formalised reminder of the values we shold all uphold generally, as people who have to live together. These people, I believe, were in contradictions to these 'laws of common decency', and they simply should not be allowed to disregard them for their own personal reasons.

We live in a society, all of us.

[auroraglacialis]

Originally Posted by Fkeu'itan

. I don't think it's fair to excuse them for acting in a way that is crude or destructive or loutish, just because they are under pressure, that serves as too much of an easy way out of the issue for me.

Yes, I understand - it may be a reason, but it is hardly an excuse. It may be an exuse in the way that I give them the benefit of the doubt about whether or not they would act the same waqy under different circumstances

I can't say I support the idea that people can freely pitch up anywhere they like and start making a mess, then being able to simply wave a hand and justify it as their 'cultural right'.

Oh definitely I dislike people making a mess, leaving trash in rivers and therelike.

These people, I believe, were in contradictions to these 'laws of common decency', and they simply should not be allowed to disregard them for their own personal reasons.

Well I dont know - the rules they did not follow are not even laws, they are building and zoning regulations. Which is why they were not arrested, but evicted. So I think this is a rather low priority violation. More comparable to jaywalking than squatting. Which is why I think the reaction was disproportional to the violations at hand.

I wonder also, what would have happened if some rich white guys would have bought that land and would have built a little summer house on them - I somehow imagine that there would not have been a yearlong lawsuit and then a forceful eviction involved :s

[iron_jones]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

I wonder also, what would have happened if some rich white guys would have bought that land and would have built a little summer house on them

Were the people evicted not white?

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

Oh definitely I dislike people making a mess, leaving trash in rivers and therelike.

...then I don't understand why you jump to defend on this. While some are fine, they are generally law-abiding in general, and will use land that they own and have legitimately gained permission for its use, or else designated sites. It's people who will park up on someone else's land or a public space, damage it and leave rubbish everywhere, fly-tip in local rivers and steal anything that isn't nailed down who won't care about laws regarding planning.

Well I dont know - the rules they did not follow are not even laws, they are building and zoning regulations. Which is why they were not arrested, but evicted. So I think this is a rather low priority violation. More comparable to jaywalking than squatting. Which is why I think the reaction was disproportional to the violations at hand.

I assume you saw the videos. The police were expecting violence, particularly with anarchists/communists there who were there for no other reason than to have a fight with some police. If they went in unprepared, they would likely have been murdered.

I wonder also, what would have happened if some rich white guys would have bought that land and would have built a little summer house on them - I somehow imagine that there would not have been a yearlong lawsuit and then a forceful eviction involved :s

You'd be surprised - even where planning permission has been breached, you can usually get it applied retroactively where there aren't specific laws governing what can be built in certain areas. Not ever caring to try, on the other hand...

(Oh, and these ARE rich white people )