This is unfortunate news

[Marvellous Chester]

F*ck the thing that provides you with air, water and food?! I wonder how well you would do without those then Mosquitoes aren't going anywhere, so as has been said, learn to live with them.

[Theorist]

Bacteria I can't conciously stop killing them in my stomach, and if I killed myself, a lot of other different bacteria would die. So that's a bit different than going out of one's ways to kill an organism that is simply doing what it must to pass on it's genes. Sure it's okay to try and slap the ones biting you, but going out of one's way to kill as many as possible is genecide of a species, and each species is important

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by The Silver Stag

F*ck the thing that provides you with air, water and food?! I wonder how well you would do without those then Mosquitoes aren't going anywhere, so as has been said, learn to live with them.

Nature doesn't provide water, it is the basic requirement for the existence of life as we know it.

I have a very complicated love-hate relationship with nature, that I will not bother to explain to people who do not possess administrative level access to my mind. Suffice to say that nature is an opportunistic clustercuss of epic proportions that is all powered by water, plant life and sun. Those three components are what I don't have issues with, but what they enable is another thing altogether.

For those who want a short, dumbed down version:

Originally Posted by Theorist

Bacteria I can't conciously stop killing them in my stomach, and if I killed myself, a lot of other different bacteria would die. So that's a bit different than going out of one's ways to kill an organism that is simply doing what it must to pass on it's genes. Sure it's okay to try and slap the ones biting you, but going out of one's way to kill as many as possible is genecide of a species, and each species is important

Nature and life is all about opportunistic survival of who can have the most copies of its genetic material. Each organism is geared and tuned towards that purpose alone, and no form of life, save for plants, have any sort of right to be here, because they don't produce anything, they just consume, and in turn become consumed at some point.

We are all just opportunistic and selfish machines feeding of the success of life that enabled us in the first place.

[Marvellous Chester]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Nature doesn't provide water, it is the basic requirement for the existence of life as we know it.

I have a very complicated love-hate relationship with nature, that I will not bother to explain to people who do not possess administrative level access to my mind. Suffice to say that nature is an opportunistic clustercuss of epic proportions that is all powered by water, plant life and sun. Those three components are what I don't have issues with, but what they enable is another thing altogether.

I can't take any more of that video, 'nature ****ing sucks', he wouldn't even be around to say that were it not for nature the ungrateful little .... person. I don't even know what to say to you Everything is a parasite because everything lives off each other, that's just the web of life and aslong as you are a alive you are part of it whether you are a human or amoebae.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by The Silver Stag

I can't take any more of that video, 'nature ****ing sucks', he wouldn't even be around to say that were it not for nature the ungrateful little .... person. I don't even know what to say to you Everything is a parasite because everything lives off each other, that's just the web of life and aslong as you are a alive you are part of it whether you are a human or amoebae.

We are aware of this problem and are working to fix it.

A self-sustaining humanity would be an incredibly good thing, both for sentimental and practical reasons. It means we can stop polluting the more natural environment, but it also means that if something catastrophic happens to it, man-made or otherwise, we can survive in the manner in which we are accustomed. It also brings benefits if we were ever to emigrate; we don't specifically have to find life at the destination in order to survive, which makes, say, a Mars colony a whole lot easier.

[Marvellous Chester]

O_O I don't understand what you mean with, 'We are aware of this problem and are working to fix it.' It's not a problem and does not need fixing, we can't escape nature, it is everything on Earth that is living or that gives us life. Also if something catastrophic happens to the environement that man has caused, why should we survive? Perhaps the question is how would we survive, without a suitable variety of animals and plants around us? Whatever catastrophe you are referring to, new life will always emerge and thrive.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by The Silver Stag

O_O I don't understand what you mean with, 'We are aware of this problem and are working to fix it.' It's not a problem and does not need fixing, we can't escape nature, it is everything on Earth that is living or that gives us life.

Dependency on anything external is a potential problem for survival, and there are several technologies in the pipeline to remove that dependency.

Also if something catastrophic happens to the environement that man has caused, why should we survive?

Why does anything survive?

[auroraglacialis]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Next thing I'm going to blame you is for killing the bacteria inside you that your immune system got rid of because you are still healthy. Why don't you lay down and die so bacteria have a right to exist?

a) self-defense is OK
b) I will as almost all the people in the world that were not cremated or frozen eventually lay down and die so that bacteria, worms, funghi and int he end plant can have their right to exist.

F*ck nature and all the people who advocate for it.

Now I really have to question if I logged into the wrong forum!

Originally Posted by The Silver Stag

F*ck the thing that provides you with air, water and food?!

I think this is literally what is happening. Civilized humans are in a way the biggest m0therfvckers in the world.

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Nature doesn't provide water

It takes our dirty water and gives back clean water.

I have a very complicated love-hate relationship with nature, that I will not bother to explain to people who do not possess administrative level access to my mind.

Ah, good then that in some decades when you uploaded your mind to a computer, someone will have that

no form of life, save for plants, have any sort of right to be here, because they don't produce anything, they just consume, and in turn become consumed at some point.

So what is wrong with consume and being consumed. It is what makes life beautiful. "Everything is just borrowed" and we all turn back to the Earth, every being dies and some new life emerges. It is a constant flux of everything - if that would stop, life would stop.

We are all just opportunistic and selfish machines feeding of the success of life that enabled us in the first place.

That is an extremely ugly and hateful description of life and I increasingly get the feeling that this self-hate is what is causing all the damage. The hate of humans of this culture for all life and for humans themselves.

Originally Posted by The Silver Stag

Everything is a parasite because everything lives off each other, that's just the web of life and aslong as you are a alive you are part of it whether you are a human or amoebae.

Exactly! Even plants are feeding off others because they need the CO2 we exhale, they need the minerals in the soil that are there when other beings die. Did you know that without salmon swimming up all the way to the spring of rivers, thegreat forests in these regions would eventually run low on Phosphorous? But they do, bears and eagles eat them and they sh1t in the forest and die there so the forest can live.
And in a way it is merely a choice. You can see this cycle of life as a parasitic nightmare were all beings are just taking every opportunity to suck the blood from everyone else - or you could see it as a symbiosis in which all life works together to make a living world possible. Its a choice, a point of view and I think both are true - just one view will depress you and make you hateful and agressive about Nature and other beings (including other humans) and life in general while the other may actually let you feel at home, connected and feel purposeful.
And now I have to stop, because I am steaming right now and dont want to use any more "bad words"...

[Theorist]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Nature and life is all about opportunistic survival of who can have the most copies of its genetic material. Each organism is geared and tuned towards that purpose alone, and no form of life, save for plants, have any sort of right to be here, because they don't produce anything, they just consume, and in turn become consumed at some point.

We are all just opportunistic and selfish machines feeding of the success of life that enabled us in the first place.

If this were true, then why would organisms do things that don't benefit themselves, or the passing on of related genes related through brothers, sisters, cousins etc?

Also, this video is why I would leave Earth for Pandora in a heart beat. If people want to destroy the rest of nature, who I am to stop them from living their selfish lives

[Aquaplant]

The Silver Stag, your signature says much why I hate nature. It's not whether you want or not, but you better like running because that what you will have to do, and I ****ing hate running.

Works both literally and allegorically.

Originally Posted by Theorist

If this were true, then why would organisms do things that don't benefit themselves, or the passing on of related genes related through brothers, sisters, cousins etc?

Also, this video is why I would leave Earth for Pandora in a heart beat. If people want to destroy the rest of nature, who I am to stop them from living their selfish lives

Altruism has its own advantages in certain situations, but that's not the point.

Nature has made it abundantly clear that it doesn't want me, and in turn I don't want to have anything to do with nature. We are like an angry married couple arguing but can't split due to reality of it being what it is. This is why I want to pursue the kind of transparency that Clarke is talking about. I don't want to be hypocritical in my hate, because I also need nature, so I must find a way to eliminate that need.

Originally Posted by auroraglacialis

a) self-defense is OK
b) I will as almost all the people in the world that were not cremated or frozen eventually lay down and die so that bacteria, worms, funghi and int he end plant can have their right to exist.

And I don't mind that, I would just ask them to wait till I'm dead, but no.

Now I really have to question if I logged into the wrong forum!

You are right, this is just a dream, and to wake up, you have to realize just one thing: Aquaplant is extremely angry right now, and is lashing out because he can't take it anymore, and is out to attack anything just to vent his frustration.

I think this is literally what is happening. Civilized humans are in a way the biggest m0therfvckers in the world.

Can't say about the attitude, but we sure consume the most. Though it's not like we have a choice in the matter, because everything in our society is based, and only works because of consumption.

It takes our dirty water and gives back clean water.

Such a nostalgic phrase... Makes me remember my first nature themed presentation at school... To go back to those times and leave all this nonsense behind...

Ah, good then that in some decades when you uploaded your mind to a computer, someone will have that

I doubt that, but if I ever see you face to face with enough time for something like that, I'll be sure to at least try and explain it to you. It's of no informational value to anyone, but I suppose it could help someone to understand my frustration, I guess.

So what is wrong with consume and being consumed. It is what makes life beautiful. "Everything is just borrowed" and we all turn back to the Earth, every being dies and some new life emerges. It is a constant flux of everything - if that would stop, life would stop.

It's not the concept itself but rather how it's implemented.

That is an extremely ugly and hateful description of life and I increasingly get the feeling that this self-hate is what is causing all the damage. The hate of humans of this culture for all life and for humans themselves.

It's only scorched earth with personal modifiers added to the mix. This is all they offer, and I refuse to accept such a crappy deal, so I will make sure to hate the things that force the reality be what it is.

And in a way it is merely a choice. You can see this cycle of life as a parasitic nightmare were all beings are just taking every opportunity to suck the blood from everyone else - or you could see it as a symbiosis in which all life works together to make a living world possible. Its a choice, a point of view and I think both are true - just one view will depress you and make you hateful and agressive about Nature and other beings (including other humans) and life in general while the other may actually let you feel at home, connected and feel purposeful.
And now I have to stop, because I am steaming right now and dont want to use any more "bad words"...

A better world... One can only dream... But then you have to wake up and realize it was all just an illusion.



Perhaps I should try to calm down before upsetting too many people...

[Tsyal Makto]

TBH I think there is a schism coming in the human species. Those that want to take Clarke's approach can leave the planet completely, and become the space-traveling species they want to be. Hell, they can set up camp on Mars for all I care. At the same time, we let the Earth return to a natural state, and those of us who want to live close to nature can stay.

Or if you insist on staying on Earth, you must contain your presence in a limited number of self-sustaining biosphere. It must have zero impact on the surrounding environment. As before, if you wish to live close to the land, you're free to roam the planet. If you want to live in a mass industrial society, stay in your sphere.

[Moco Loco]

Tsyal, hopefully the schism can be as peaceful as this. Many I've spoken to think those on the side of technology will get tired of the nature people walking around and wipe them out
Aquaplant, I think all this cynicism is kind of unwarranted. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I do think you should give nature a little more credit than you are. It's utterly true that without nature, you would be nothing.

[Theorist]

I agree with Tysal, and hope with Moco.

picture time



because something like that scares me. A lot. Even if there are parks in cities they aren't wild.

[Moco Loco]

I feel like both ways of life are possible, just not on the same planet. Because Earth is unique, I think we have a responsibility to leave it for the nature people, since technology can be brought anywhere.

[Theorist]

Ww, you just gave me another good reason to do engineering physics. I could work the get everyone off this planet who doesn't want to be a nature hippie