Photosynthetic Animals

[Raiden]

Originally Posted by Aquaplant

Is it even possible to be too humane? Isn't that a contradiction in itself?

I mean that if humane behaviour becomes detrimental to life, then can it even be considered humane anymore?

Yes, it is possible.

But once you cross the line, it ceases to be humane and it just becomes irrational behavior based on feelings.

For example, I feed my treefrogs and my tarantulas crickets, mealworms, waxworms, and other insects, alive. For the smaller ones, sometimes I have to physically disbale the insect so that they can eat it more easily. This could be considered inhumane, but the insect would have died anyway, and it isn't dying for no reason; another animal is hungry and will only accept live prey as food.

I spend a lot of time on youtube looking up videos of other people's cool lizards, snakes, frogs, spiders, etc. and I run into idiots all the time who squeal when an Arowana eats a live fish, or when an L. parahybana tarantula eats a live mouse; they post tons of negative comments and generally make the person who is feeding the animal in question look like a demon. That is when you cross the line; every second, millions of living things are brutally and viciously murdered by other animals in search of food. Nobody accosts them for their meal when Lions snap a gazelle's neck, nobody yells when a peripatus worm eats its prey alive, and nobody protests when a Python squeezes the life out of a baby jungle boar. Predation is a natural occurrence, and small predatory animals in captivity need to eat something, but when people become "humaniacs", they no longer think of these things with reason, and so if they take action, they cause more harm than good.

If you want a great example, look up PETA on wikipedia. Those people are nutjobs.

[Moco Loco]

People like that shouldn't be watching those videos then So many animals only eat live prey, and what do they think, the animals shouldn't be allowed to live as they've been living for millions of years?

[Theorist]

Raiden, I realize the lion must kill the gazelle to survive, and the gazelle must escape the lion to survive. In each scenario, there's a loser or a winner. I realize on must lose and one must win. But it still strikes a sympathy note to see the gazelle die, or the lion lose a meal. I think humans tend to have a sympathy in which they don't enjoy watching things lose important challenges.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Raiden

Yes, it is possible.

But once you cross the line, it ceases to be humane and it just becomes irrational behavior based on feelings.

Well that was my whole point, because by definition humane can't really be anything bad, or it ceases to be humane.

For example, I feed my treefrogs and my tarantulas crickets, mealworms, waxworms, and other insects, alive. For the smaller ones, sometimes I have to physically disbale the insect so that they can eat it more easily. This could be considered inhumane, but the insect would have died anyway, and it isn't dying for no reason; another animal is hungry and will only accept live prey as food.

Tarantulas <3

Anyhow, how come your pets are so tiny that they can't naturally eat their prey once you drop it in their container? I mean if they are naturally a predator of said insect, then they should be able to eat them regardless of the condition of the prey. I guess you have pretty dangerous food for your pets then, if at times it needs to be subdued first.

I spend a lot of time on youtube looking up videos of other people's cool lizards, snakes, frogs, spiders, etc. and I run into idiots all the time who squeal when an Arowana eats a live fish, or when an L. parahybana tarantula eats a live mouse; they post tons of negative comments and generally make the person who is feeding the animal in question look like a demon.

Youtube comments, the cream and crop of the internet.

That is when you cross the line; every second, millions of living things are brutally and viciously murdered by other animals in search of food. Nobody accosts them for their meal when Lions snap a gazelle's neck, nobody yells when a peripatus worm eats its prey alive, and nobody protests when a Python squeezes the life out of a baby jungle boar.

It is the out of sight, out of mind and ignorance is bliss factor that governs such behaviour in humans. For example, at times I have problems eating meat, because I can't be sure how it was made, or what it was made of. I wouldn't have this problem if I wasn't aware of the horrors how majority of food is produced these days. People won't complain about things they aren't aware of and that is the reason you see people demonizing those who feed their pets with live animals.

Predation is a natural occurrence, and small predatory animals in captivity need to eat something, but when people become "humaniacs", they no longer think of these things with reason, and so if they take action, they cause more harm than good.

People complaining on youtube hardly is detrimental to anyone, other than being annoying if you take those comments too seriously.

If you want a great example, look up PETA on wikipedia. Those people are nutjobs.

So they say, but personally I'm not interested in such trivial nutjobs. It's the people who are my kind of weird that get my attention. Stupidity can be amusing to an extent, but after a while it starts to hurt one's head.

Originally Posted by Theorist

Raiden, I realize the lion must kill the gazelle to survive, and the gazelle must escape the lion to survive. In each scenario, there's a loser or a winner. I realize on must lose and one must win. But it still strikes a sympathy note to see the gazelle die, or the lion lose a meal. I think humans tend to have a sympathy in which they don't enjoy watching things lose important challenges.

This is very true, most excellent point.

[Raiden]

I was just explaining what I meant. You dissected what I said as if trying to disprove me.

And, no, baby tarantulas are terrible at finding food on their own. Young reptiles and amphibians also tend to need a little help at getting food too. I have a juvenile longtoe salamander right now, and it's eating thawed bloodworms from a pipette until I can give it live prey.

[Aquaplant]

Originally Posted by Raiden

I was just explaining what I meant. You dissected what I said as if trying to disprove me.

Not at all, it's just the way I reply to things, in order to reduce the chances of misunderstandings, but I guess in this case it didn't work, quite the contrary. I thank you for saying it out loud though, because usually people just assume that I'm out to get them or something. This is just my way of addressing everything you said in a manner that is most effective to me. That is I pick up on one point at a time, that I think you are trying to make, and then reply to it as I think is appropriate. Maybe I just made some mistakes in judging your intentions to cause a somewhat negative reaction?

And, no, baby tarantulas are terrible at finding food on their own. Young reptiles and amphibians also tend to need a little help at getting food too. I have a juvenile longtoe salamander right now, and it's eating thawed bloodworms from a pipette until I can give it live prey.

Then they must have really hard time in nature on their own, if they only accept live prey, but I guess there are more docile prey available than what you can buy or collect from your surroundings. I'm not much of a biologist, even though I have a kind of fascination towards certain types of animals, like spiders, snakes and lizards for example. I would really like to have a rainbow boa as a pet, but the ethics of keeping pets, and the costs are something that I can't overlook.