So.... how are Norm and Max going to survive?

[mikkowilson]

There are 5 or 6 ISV's already on the way to Pandora (each a year apart); and they only carry enough (Unobtainium) fuel to slow-down & stop to arrive at Pandora.

And the only way to leave Pandora is using more Unobtanium & gasses from Pandora's atmosphere (collected by shuttles) - a process that takes about 9 months (IIRC) to complete.


So regarding the issue of supplies ... there *are* more ships on the way; and each will have to hang around for a while before it can leave - Even if it leaves early, without enough fuel for another trip to Pandora.

Humans will be around on Pandora for the next 6 years or so in some capacity.


... Unless the incoming ships are destroyed.



- Mikko

[Clarke]

Unobtanium can't be used as a fuel.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto

I'm sure that Max and Norm are able to find enough supplies from Hells Gate and other RDA bases for a while. I think the RDA, seeing how long it could take to mine Pandora and skirmish with the Na'vi, would of stockpiled enough supplies to last them at least 10 years or more. Plus I think that some RDA ships with troops and supplies included would eventually come back in order to try to start occupying Pandora again.

The ISVs are carrying electronic components and possibly 20-30 marines without any real equipment (and could only fit maybe 12 ampsuits or 2 disassembled scorpions anyway), while Hell's Gate has a crapton of anti-air weapons. Without fuel supplied from Hell's Gate, they aren't going to be able to get home on their own and eventually their life support will shut down.

[Rainbowhawk1993]

It's simple, Max, Norm and the Scientists live off the supllies at hell's gate. The Avatars and the scientics were choosen to stay because they have a purpose there. What do you think it is? Hint: check the Activist guide. I curently writeing my Fan-fic about it about what the scientists will do now the war is over.

[Crickett]

Originally Posted by Rainbowhawk1993

It's simple, Max, Norm and the Scientists live off the supllies at hell's gate. The Avatars and the scientics were choosen to stay because they have a purpose there. What do you think it is? Hint: check the Activist guide. I curently writeing my Fan-fic about it about what the scientists will do now the war is over.

I think I may still be having trouble expressing what my concern is.

It is not supplies + people = running out of supplies.

It is supplies + time = unusable supplies.

Now, I don't see this as a problem for food. The Na'vi can supply that. And so can the garden. Especially given how few people you're feeding. And I don't see that with water, the Na'vi can supply that too. And so can the rain.

My concern is the air filters and gas masks. It is my understanding that if enough time goes by, they simply stop working or are unusable.

I also figured

Originally Posted by Raiden

That depends on whether or not they can keep the base up and running. They have a prefab/geolithography plant, which means that they can replace hardware items fairly easily, and that goes a long way.

that maybe this was the answer I was looking for.


As far as the scientists staying (going back to the original quote)..... I figured it wasn't so much that they stayed for a reason but rather that they had earned the right to stay and simply wanted to. After all, what's the alternative, going back to a dying earth and being at the very least sued into non-existence or possibly arrested? I'll go check the activist's guide though.

[Clarke]

Originally Posted by Crickett

Now, I don't see this as a problem for food. The Na'vi can supply that.

That doesn't sound like a given to me.

[mikkowilson]

I'd assume that if they where "chosen to stay", that choice was made by the Na'vi, who would then support their presence.

Plus, there's more Sawtute coming; you're gonna want that base ready.

- Mikko

[Moco Loco]

The Omaticaya would be *******s not to help Norm and Max get food, etc Tiny frail humans can't be expected to live on their own, I'd think.

[Raiden]

Originally Posted by Helicoradian

If no organs were hit, Norms avatar would most likely have survived. Plus the base would have everything needed treat his avatar back to good health.

Look at it this way...Tsu'tey took gunfire to his torso, then fell hundreds of feet to the ground...and survived. It's entirely possible Norm's did too.

No, Tsu'tey was a goner.

He asked Jake to end it quickly so he didn't die of blood loss. Also, he was shot in the stomach, and I'm pretty sure half a dozen bullets in your gut would ruin your innards to the point of fatality.

Also, you could easily kill someone via shooting them over where important arteries lie. Shooting either side of someone's neck would rip open jugular veins, and shooting someone through the Deltoid muscle or in the knees or ankles would also result in a lot of blood loss.

Tsu'tey just wanted to die by the hand of a legend instead dying by the hand of a disgraceful alien.

[Helicoradian]

Originally Posted by Raiden

No, Tsu'tey was a goner.

He asked Jake to end it quickly so he didn't die of blood loss. Also, he was shot in the stomach, and I'm pretty sure half a dozen bullets in your gut would ruin your innards to the point of fatality.

Also, you could easily kill someone via shooting them over where important arteries lie. Shooting either side of someone's neck would rip open jugular veins, and shooting someone through the Deltoid muscle or in the knees or ankles would also result in a lot of blood loss.

Tsu'tey just wanted to die by the hand of a legend instead dying by the hand of a disgraceful alien.

True that nothing would have saved Tsu'tey, but the point I was trying to make was that his injuries were as severe, if not more so (because of the gunshots + fall) compared to what happened to Norm's.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if Tsu'tey could've survived long enough for Jake to find him, Norm's avatar could do the same and possibly be saved by the scientist. Or his avatar took a gunshot to the heart and was dead before it hit the ground. Really all we have is speculation about it.


Now for supplies, I'm sure the scientist could work out a trade with the arriving ISV fleet for whatever cargo they have aboard for any remaining unobtanium left at hells gate. That would help keep the few remaining people in decent stock of supplies for the next six years or so...

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Crickett

My concern is the air filters and gas masks. It is my understanding that if enough time goes by, they simply stop working or are unusable.

The filters are designed to require cleaning every month or so, which isn't that bad, and although the CO2 scrubbing tank will eventually need replacing, considering the fact that there are hundreds of exopacks around at the very least (plus spares, and all the emergency ones) for tens of people, they're fine for decades at least, not to mention the ability to manufacture new ones, with the largely automated stereolithography plant.

[rasomaso]

my bet is that they are gonna mutate to an entirely different lifeform

but seriously even with exopacks, food and all that... I don't think they are gonna exactly live in the na'vi village, whatever that is in the sequel. Pandora is dangerous for such a little adapted creature as humans, only other possibility is that na'vi would inhabit the hell's gate, which seems unlikely though. It seems wrong that they would live separatelly, Norm and Max in Hell's Gate and na'vi would just drop by for a visit or something lol.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by rasomaso

my bet is that they are gonna mutate to an entirely different lifeform

Evolution does not work that way. At all.
The short version: There needs to be a selective pressure that makes specific individuals more likely to survive/reproduce, not just 'because it's convenient'. Mutations are also evident in offspring, not extant individuals.

but seriously even with exopacks, food and all that... I don't think they are gonna exactly live in the na'vi village, whatever that is in the sequel. Pandora is dangerous for such a little adapted creature as humans, only other possibility is that na'vi would inhabit the hell's gate, which seems unlikely though. It seems wrong that they would live separatelly, Norm and Max in Hell's Gate and na'vi would just drop by for a visit or something lol.

The humans would live in Hell's Gate, especially since someone needs to keep it manned in terms of communication as well. They also wouldn't really be able to survive well even in a Hometree without any of the Na'vi adaptation. Distance isn't such a problem with ikran

[rasomaso]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Evolution does not work that way. At all.
The short version: There needs to be a selective pressure that makes specific individuals more likely to survive/reproduce, not just 'because it's convenient'. Mutations are also evident in offspring, not extant individuals.

Haha I know HNM, I was just kidding. xD

Originally Posted by Human No More

The humans would live in Hell's Gate, especially since someone needs to keep it manned in terms of communication as well. They also wouldn't really be able to survive well even in a Hometree without any of the Na'vi adaptation. Distance isn't such a problem with ikran

but what if Jake and Ney start coming more rarely and norm and max are gonna be alooneee

[Niri Te]

I saw where his Avatar took the hit, and as a former Combat Soldier, (Vietnam), I can also tell you that unless he was hit in places that were not shown in the movie, he would not have use of his left shoulder, if in his Avatar, only by separating as he did, could he continue to carry the attack to the enemy. The bullet appears to have entered his Avatar just below the collar bone, shattering the shoulder blade on exit. This probably did no more than tear up his shoulder, without penetrating any critical organs, or major blood vessels.
There also is no way to know how many minutes there were for him to get one of the Na'vi to stop the slight bleeding before he separated. Remember the one rider who stopped to allow another rider of a shot up horse to hop on the back of his horse with him, there WERE people looking out for their buddies in that attack.

Originally Posted by Clarke

He got shot, and then abandoned for a tens of minutes. (probably longer, since it'd take time to find him and so on) Unless the Na'vi have proportionally significantly more blood than humans do, he's going to bleed out quite quickly.