Norm and his Avatar

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Theorist

Is Norm's Avatar is considered live when he's not in it, and it's just laying in the cot? I mean I don't know for sure, but does the Avatar function when the link isn't connected, like does the heart beat?

But. I would think that even if his Avatar bled out that they could heal it in the tank, or some other form given what they have. Just speculation though. The extent of medical technology they have isn't shown in the movie so much.

Yeah, it's similar to a coma when unlinked. There are basic autonomic processes, such as minimal heartbeat, breathing, and respiration, but no higher neural activity.

In some of the fluff, it mentions those tanks being used on Earth for people who can afford it where they can perform unprecedented restoration of injury etc.

[Niri Te]

Well then Norm's Avatar could have been retrieved by his fellow Cavalrymen, and returned to the proper people, and actually be in a tank while we are watching Norm outside machine gun in hand with a pack on while the RDA vermin are loaded into the shuttles.
THAT would be cool. Too bad that Max is destined to never get his own Avatar.
Niri Te

[mikkowilson]

Originally Posted by Clarke

The tank isn't a resurrection machine, so if he's dead, he's dead.

But was the avatar ever really "alive"?

- Mikko

[Crickett]

Originally Posted by mikkowilson

But was the avatar ever really "alive"?

- Mikko

That depends entirely if your definition of alive includes higher brain functions. If it doesn't, I would say they were most certainly alive. Otherwise I doubt they would be able to even twitch as they did early in the film.

[Moco Loco]

I guess this would depend on how soon the avatar was returned to the tank. If too much time passed or if the body was trampled by something (which could've easily happened), pretty safe to say it's useless.

[versicolor]

Originally Posted by Human No More

I'm not quite prepared to call deleted scenes canon, myself... the other one with Tsu'tey, for example, appears not to have happened in the new scene for the CE, and then we get to the one at the end of the film, which has huge repercussions for Avatar 2 if true.

I take your point, although it was just an opinion of mine that JC didn't reshoot Norm's reaction on exiting the link chamber to suit the shoulder injury.

[Ateyo leSyaksyuk]

Given that the (out-takes) suggested that cloning was being ussed successfully on Irrta, it would not surprise me to find avatar enbryos stored in cryo. Spares if you will. But also given the LINK technology, we could assume that medically, the sawtute are far advanced. It might also be surmised that key figures could be cloned for future use or (shudders) spare parts.

[Clarke]

(Why would one be so inefficient as to clone the whole body, when only specific parts are required?)

[Pa'li Makto]

I always thought that the reason why Norm's link failed in that battle was because the shock of the shoulder injury did something to his concentration/ the required functioning of the brain and the link wasn't able to be sustained with his Avatar. I can't really explain it fully, but it seems to be similar to how Jake breathed in the Pandoran air while he was in his link and then his connection with his Avatar body was interrupted. Causing him to be back in his human body.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by Clarke

(Why would one be so inefficient as to clone the whole body, when only specific parts are required?)

Exactly.
The main purpose of the tanks when used for humans would be to allow growth of what is actually needed, whether in place or separately for transplant.

Originally Posted by Pa'li Makto

I always thought that the reason why Norm's link failed in that battle was because the shock of the shoulder injury did something to his concentration/ the required functioning of the brain and the link wasn't able to be sustained with his Avatar. I can't really explain it fully, but it seems to be similar to how Jake breathed in the Pandoran air while he was in his link and then his connection with his Avatar body was interrupted. Causing him to be back in his human body.

I tend to agree, this seems the most plausible explanation, pain would certainly do it, as would loss of consciousness.

[Cyvaris]

Originally Posted by Human No More

Spoiler: Deleted scene 

Neytiri is pregnant in it.

Just one little thing...am I the only one who sort of hoped the Avatars where impotent? I know that's a bit of a downer but it...it gives the entire decision to switch into your Avatar a bit of gravitas.


Anyway on the entire "dead not dead" chest shot thing.

Who says the Na'Vi/Avatar have their hearts in the same place we have ours? Maybe their heart is off to the side.

Also my rule for movies/anything, unless a character is explicitly said to be dead/the killing wound is shown they are not dead.
So Norm's Avatar could still be alive.

"THE TREE OF SOULS WAS ONLY A SETBACK!!"

[Human No More]

I'd be fairly confident you are the only one hoping that

[jujubees]

I really don't think Norm's avatar is dead. The only script-related reason he gets shot is to get him out of the link module and away from the shack- otherwise, the final showdown doesn't work with another person there. It has to be just Quaritch, Neyteri, Jake, and Jake's avatar.
But beyond that, we know that Cameron's final cut was done with an eye towards the sequels. It just makes no sense to waste a perfectly good main character for the sequels; without his avatar, Norm is just another Max. With his avatar, he can serve as a top advisor to Jake, someone who would be invaluable to him and the Ometicaya. His science background and his experience as a rebel who fought alongside the Na'vi would certainly make him a major player, and he has a lot more "forest cred" than the other avatars who stayed on Pandora, but did not fight against the RDA.
Perhaps this is why the romance storyline between Norm and Trudi was cut- it makes it a lot easier to have Norm find his true love amongst the natives. He might end up mating with one of them (perhaps the "best singer" Neyteri mentions?). I won't venture a guess as to whether or not he undergoes the Fal-tor-Pan and transfers into his avatar permanently.
As for his injuries, given the huge cost of avatars ($5 billion just for the embryo, plus training, transportation, support) they almost certainly have the medical capability to repair one that has been injured or damaged. I believe that Norm's avatar was probably in the lab recovering when the banished humans are boarding the shuttle at the end of the film.

[Crickett]

Originally Posted by jujubees

But beyond that, we know that Cameron's final cut was done with an eye towards the sequels. It just makes no sense to waste a perfectly good main character for the sequels

Grace, Trudy and Tsu'tey died too. Granted, Grace will return, or at least Sigourney Weaver will return, but......

if Avatar wasn't so ridiculously successful as it was, I doubt there would be a sequel. Even if it had met the expectations that were supposedly set ($750 million box office if I recall correctly), the next project James Cameron was supposedly looking at was Battle Angel Alita. And having seen the original long ago, I have no idea why, but whatever.

I don't think there were any plans for a sequel until the words "two billion dollar movie" came into play.

The point of this is, I don't think the loss of a main character like Norm (who isn't dead, just his Avatar-maybe) would be a sufficient reason to say it wouldn't happen.

[Human No More]

Originally Posted by jujubees

Perhaps this is why the romance storyline between Norm and Trudi was cut- it makes it a lot easier to have Norm find his true love amongst the natives. He might end up mating with one of them (perhaps the "best singer" Neyteri mentions?). I won't venture a guess as to whether or not he undergoes the Fal-tor-Pan and transfers into his avatar permanently..

Now that is an excellent point - clearly, part of it was time again (IMAX time limitation...), but having Norm (relatively) suddenly getting over losing Trudy if they were so close would be harder to justify in story and make it look like they didn't really have a plan for where he was going character-wise. Good observation